If this is too long I have a TLDR at the bottom, that said, I'd love feedback on the full post.
Umbraco is great, I've been loving it. However, I'm baffled by the lack of developers that have needed or implemented a properly done news module. I've done some work on a news solution, the gist was: create a news section document type, create a news item document type, give them properties related to articles (news date, teaser, image, etc.), then output it via a Macro.
This is a solution, but far from how real news should work. The biggest problem is that news items aren't just pages, thinking about them and treating them like standard nodes of content is a mistake. Here are some big problems that I have seen:
1. The news on the backend is sorted by folder and name sorting, not by date. News, is date oriented, it needs to be sorted by date on the front and back end of the site. What if a client adds news that took place in the past, it needs to be sorted properly once it has been created, it shouldn't just be thrown on top of the pile. Rather, it should be filed into the file based on its new date (not its created date).
2. Autofolders is a start, if it worked in 4.5 (it doesn't) but it's still not a full solution. For one, the create date needs to be different from the news date. A news date might change at some point. Therefore, the folder created for the original item needs to be removed, assuming there is not other news also from that date.
3. A content tree view of news feels a bit off. Really it seems like a list of news items would be ideal. A group of news categories, then a list of all the news items for each category (or maybe no categories and just do tagging inside each news item, if you even need tagging or categories). This way clients don't have to create a new folder for the current month before creating a news item. Instead, they just create the item and all the hard work is done via macros.
Has anyone dealt with these challenges? If a site like Wired.co.uk is using Umbraco I imagine there has to be an ironed out publishing system that relies more heavily on dates. We've been doing a lot of Umbraco work and the one question that always comes up is why news feels so long-winded to create and edit. Clients hate it.
If someone has tackled this I'd love to know what you did. And, if there are tools we can use without having to code our own solution. If we end up doing that, fine, we'll definitely put it back into the community. Still, we're assuming we're not the first group of people looking for a solution like this.
Cheers,
Bruce Clark (twitter @bruce)
TLDR:
- A way to have news sorted in the back end of Umbraco by date, not by folder.
- A way to control news based on a custom date field, not a 'created on' date field. Autofolders isn't a solution due to 4.5 compat and because if you change an item after it was created it doesn't fix the folder structure. Plus, it's not based on a custom date field, it's based on the 'created on' date field.
- The client shouldn't have to create year and month folders, a big list of items would be best. Do the hard lifting on the front-end.
- Editing an item date or adding in an old item should place the node properly into the ones that already exist.
One approach I have sued int he past is to take the Blog package and disable comments. This could give you enough of a start but you will probably need to tweek it to meet your requirements.
I think there are a couple packages that (might) help some of your concerns (listed in TLDR):
1 - Document Sorter - this should allow you to automatically sort nodes by any field you like, including custom or built-in Date fields.
2 - Again, Document Sorter should do the trick as I think it updates automatically (on save?), so changing the News date field (whatever you decide it should be) should update the sort order.
3 - FALM Tabular Folder Browser - this is a datatype that displays a tabular list of nodes beneath it, which you could use sort of like a News "dashboard" on the root News node. It can list custom fields and has filtering. This would allow the client to navigate all the News items in list-style, plus they can sort, filter (with date ranges), see multiple fields, and don't have to use the tree.
4 - Again Document Sorter should handle this.
I think this answers most of your questions, let us know if not!
@Tom This will work for us, thanks for the help. Although the FALM Tabular Folder Browser seems incredibly difficult to set up. Luckily the date sorting is what we needed and your first link (Document Sorter) fixes that.
I've made your answer the solution, but I'd love to see what others bring to the table as well.
Glad I could help. Not sure what troubles you were having with the Folder Browser? It worked perfectly and seemed simple when I set it up a few days ago.
I'm also curious to see if others have different approaches...
Ok, I see what you mean...when you create a new datatype from scratch based on it, its a bit confusing. I started with the one that was installed with the package. You have probably already figured out, but you need to create the datatype, save it (you'll get an error), reload it by clicking it in the tree again, then entering your fields/options/etc
Best approach for news, nothing available looks right.
If this is too long I have a TLDR at the bottom, that said, I'd love feedback on the full post.
Umbraco is great, I've been loving it. However, I'm baffled by the lack of developers that have needed or implemented a properly done news module. I've done some work on a news solution, the gist was: create a news section document type, create a news item document type, give them properties related to articles (news date, teaser, image, etc.), then output it via a Macro.
This is a solution, but far from how real news should work. The biggest problem is that news items aren't just pages, thinking about them and treating them like standard nodes of content is a mistake. Here are some big problems that I have seen:
1. The news on the backend is sorted by folder and name sorting, not by date. News, is date oriented, it needs to be sorted by date on the front and back end of the site. What if a client adds news that took place in the past, it needs to be sorted properly once it has been created, it shouldn't just be thrown on top of the pile. Rather, it should be filed into the file based on its new date (not its created date).
2. Autofolders is a start, if it worked in 4.5 (it doesn't) but it's still not a full solution. For one, the create date needs to be different from the news date. A news date might change at some point. Therefore, the folder created for the original item needs to be removed, assuming there is not other news also from that date.
3. A content tree view of news feels a bit off. Really it seems like a list of news items would be ideal. A group of news categories, then a list of all the news items for each category (or maybe no categories and just do tagging inside each news item, if you even need tagging or categories). This way clients don't have to create a new folder for the current month before creating a news item. Instead, they just create the item and all the hard work is done via macros.
Has anyone dealt with these challenges? If a site like Wired.co.uk is using Umbraco I imagine there has to be an ironed out publishing system that relies more heavily on dates. We've been doing a lot of Umbraco work and the one question that always comes up is why news feels so long-winded to create and edit. Clients hate it.
If someone has tackled this I'd love to know what you did. And, if there are tools we can use without having to code our own solution. If we end up doing that, fine, we'll definitely put it back into the community. Still, we're assuming we're not the first group of people looking for a solution like this.
Cheers,
Bruce Clark (twitter @bruce)
TLDR:
- A way to have news sorted in the back end of Umbraco by date, not by folder.
- A way to control news based on a custom date field, not a 'created on' date field. Autofolders isn't a solution due to 4.5 compat and because if you change an item after it was created it doesn't fix the folder structure. Plus, it's not based on a custom date field, it's based on the 'created on' date field.
- The client shouldn't have to create year and month folders, a big list of items would be best. Do the hard lifting on the front-end.
- Editing an item date or adding in an old item should place the node properly into the ones that already exist.
Hi,
One approach I have sued int he past is to take the Blog package and disable comments. This could give you enough of a start but you will probably need to tweek it to meet your requirements.
Cheers
Paul
Hi Bruce,
I think there are a couple packages that (might) help some of your concerns (listed in TLDR):
1 - Document Sorter - this should allow you to automatically sort nodes by any field you like, including custom or built-in Date fields.
2 - Again, Document Sorter should do the trick as I think it updates automatically (on save?), so changing the News date field (whatever you decide it should be) should update the sort order.
3 - FALM Tabular Folder Browser - this is a datatype that displays a tabular list of nodes beneath it, which you could use sort of like a News "dashboard" on the root News node. It can list custom fields and has filtering. This would allow the client to navigate all the News items in list-style, plus they can sort, filter (with date ranges), see multiple fields, and don't have to use the tree.
4 - Again Document Sorter should handle this.
I think this answers most of your questions, let us know if not!
Thanks,
Tom
@Tom This will work for us, thanks for the help. Although the FALM Tabular Folder Browser seems incredibly difficult to set up. Luckily the date sorting is what we needed and your first link (Document Sorter) fixes that.
I've made your answer the solution, but I'd love to see what others bring to the table as well.
Thanks again.
Glad I could help. Not sure what troubles you were having with the Folder Browser? It worked perfectly and seemed simple when I set it up a few days ago.
I'm also curious to see if others have different approaches...
Ok, I see what you mean...when you create a new datatype from scratch based on it, its a bit confusing. I started with the one that was installed with the package. You have probably already figured out, but you need to create the datatype, save it (you'll get an error), reload it by clicking it in the tree again, then entering your fields/options/etc
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