I am one of the many to ask about tips regarding how to create a 1-1 structured multilingual site. It seems most tips are referring to old posts which do not seem to exist anymore, or are outdated. To me right now, it is a question of whether or not to use Umbraco as a CMS due to the fact that my project requires this particular structure. I need it to be simple in admin to translate, for example by having several language tabs per document.
Have I missed out on an UP TO DATE and RELEVANT guide on how to create 1-1 multilingual sites in the latest versions of umbraco perhaps? Or have I perhaps missed out on a good entry in the forum? If this is the case, then great, please point me in the right direction!
However, if this is not the case, could someone help me out with this? And yes, I have read the discussions on the fact that Umbraco is not designed for 1-1 multilingual site structures.
As a matter of fact, the Polyglot package that Fengelz has mentioned, does support having several language tabs per document. I am sorry that I hadn't documented this before; it was because I mostly use the translation method I had described initially in the documentation.
I have now added instructions in the documentation of the package about how to work with tabs, so maybe you would like to take a look:
Thank you for your suggestions! I will be looking into the Polyglot package and if I get it working I will definitely mark it as an answer. Meanwhile, I appreciate all other suggestions to have other options as well.
1. If in future we add a new language to the site, can your package add the new language automatically to all the nodes? 2. Can we do two pane translation in the backend where english content pane is displayed next to the pane where the translator translates the content? 3. Is there the rollback function here? 4. Is there the possibility to exted it so the translator sees the changes made in english since last changes (I mean show the last rollback) so the translator knows what is exactly to be editied in his language?
5. Can we add RTL languages here along with LTR?
5. SEO: can we have seo friendly URLs (or custom alias urls) per language content including the meta tags?
6. Everyone talks about Multisite structure better over 1:1. I like your 1:1 as it is tight. Could you tell us more benifits over Multisite structure?
If you are asking about the Polyglot package, here are some answers to your questions:
1. Yes, as soon as you add a new language, it will appear in the drop down automatically on all front-end pages so your site's visitors will see that the language is available. When you need to enter a translation in the new language for a page, just right click on the page and select create translations in order for the appropriate translation node to be created.
2. The package supports working with panes, as described in the documentation in the section "An alternative way to work using tabs". It takes a bit more work, but it is possible.
3. There is no special rollback functionality added by the Polyglot package. Nevertheless, the standard Umbraco rollback functionality should work as expected.
4. You can always extend the package if you would like to. The source code is openly available and everyone is free to modify it as they see fit :)
5. (RTL - LTR) I guess that you can, as long as you create the appropriate stylesheets and make sure that they are applied depending on the selected language.
5. (SEO) At the moment the package creates urls that look like this: http://your.domain.here/aPage/aSubPage?lang=fr. I have found that using a different kind of urls would alter the versatility of the package and its capacity to default to an existing language when translations are not available. However, as stated before, everyone can modify the package for their own sites if they choose to.
6. I don't really think that there is a "better" way to offer multilingual content. I think that it depends on the requirements for each site. I find that multiple sites are good with respect to SEO and feeling "closer to home" for whomever is accessing them, since even their entire urls can be translated into a local language. They are also useful when the content is not simply translated but it is fundamentally different in each of the offered languages. An example of this would be an on-line store selling different products in different countries. A 1:1 solution like the polyglot package on the other hand ensures that even if some part of the content has not been translated in a certain language, visitors to the site who have selected that language will at least be made aware of its existence, since the site will default to the basic language. This also allows you to work faster in my opinion, publishing pages whenever you need to and knowing that the page will immediately be visible to all visitors. You can then take your time to translate it whenever it is convenient for you. Finally, specifically in Umbraco, I find working with the Polyglot package simpler since all my translations are contained in a single content tree. I can then use the capacity of Umbraco to hold multiple trees in order to have multiple sites running on one Umbraco installation (separate ones, not translations of a single site), each one of which can offer multilingual nodes, using the package.
I am very much thankful to you for taking time and answering my queries regarding the multilingual approach in umbraco.
I am getting inclined to Polyglot approach now as our site will be mainly 1:1.
Regarding SEO, I assume that we can continue to use your URL scheme and then add on top of it IIS7's URLREWRITING module or REWRITES via MODULES in web.config. This way, we can get the URL scheme as desired and hence need not modify Polyglot's coding to change the URL scheme. I hope this approach will work well and there will not be any conflict. Please confirm.
Another question is that Umbraco 5 is coming soon which will be MVC based. Umbraco 4.7 is webforms based. So, if we start building our site in Umbraco 4.7, will it be easier to switch the site to MVC when new Umbraco 5 comes up? Will Polyglot upgrade be provided from your end or we need to do the code transition ourselves? Or, do you recommend to wait building the multilingual site till Umbraco 5 is in production?
The reason I am asking is that our website will be having thousands of pages with may editors, and so on.
Thanks again Dimitri so much for your valuable time.
No problem! I'm glad I could help. Thank you for your interest in the Polyglot package.
I haven't really tried using url rewriting to map urls to the package's parameter based addresses but your idea seems quite feasible to me. I cannot think of any reason why it wouldn't work. Of course, one can never be sure until such a system is tested :)
About migrating to 5, if I am not mistaken, there will not be a way to automatically migrate an entire Umbraco 4 site to version 5 but a way will be offered to at least transfer the data between the two versions. If that is true, as far as the content is concerned (data) there is no problem with already using the Polyglot package, as it does not modify the way Umbraco stores its data. Any Polyglot package associated data item would in that case be transferable to version 5, the same way that any Umbraco page would be. Now as far as the logic of the package is concerned, that would take a bit of coding to migrate, just like any custom made Umbraco 4 functionality would, I suppose.
Having said that, I am working on a version of the package that will work with Umbraco 5 but, unfortunately, I cannot make any promises about when exactly it will be ready.
One thing more: We want to start the development of our website in Umbraco. It will have thousands of pages going forwards. Are you willing to work for us? We can plan for the payment via Paypal if that sounds good.
In case you are willing to work for us, please email me at: r i s h i [a t] o s h o dot n e t I will share the details of our requirements with you.
1-1 multilingual site structure
Hello,
I am one of the many to ask about tips regarding how to create a 1-1 structured multilingual site. It seems most
tips are referring to old posts which do not seem to exist anymore, or are outdated. To me right now, it is a
question of whether or not to use Umbraco as a CMS due to the fact that my project requires this particular
structure. I need it to be simple in admin to translate, for example by having several language tabs per document.
Have I missed out on an UP TO DATE and RELEVANT guide on how to create 1-1 multilingual sites in the
latest versions of umbraco perhaps? Or have I perhaps missed out on a good entry in the forum? If this is the
case, then great, please point me in the right direction!
However, if this is not the case, could someone help me out with this? And yes, I have read the discussions on
the fact that Umbraco is not designed for 1-1 multilingual site structures.
Thanks in advance for your help!
Regards
/Peter
Unfortunately there is no way to obtain this at the moment.
The closest package to emulate this is the Polyglot http://our.umbraco.org/projects/backoffice-extensions/polyglot, which I'm not sure will solve the ui simplicity well enough.
best regards
- Sune
Hi Peter
You can found same discussion in this posting http://our.umbraco.org/forum/core/general/18686-1-to-1-Site-Localization-in-Umbraco
Thanks
Pnima
Hi Peter,
As a matter of fact, the Polyglot package that Fengelz has mentioned, does support having several language tabs per document. I am sorry that I hadn't documented this before; it was because I mostly use the translation method I had described initially in the documentation.
I have now added instructions in the documentation of the package about how to work with tabs, so maybe you would like to take a look:
http://polyglot.codeplex.com/documentation
I hope that this helps!
Dimitri
Hello again,
Thank you for your suggestions! I will be looking into the Polyglot package and if I get it working I will definitely mark it as an answer. Meanwhile, I appreciate
all other suggestions to have other options as well.
Best Regards
/Peter
Hi Peter,
I am interested in your 1:1 approach.
1. If in future we add a new language to the site, can your package add the new language automatically to all the nodes?
2. Can we do two pane translation in the backend where english content pane is displayed next to the pane where the translator translates the content?
3. Is there the rollback function here?
4. Is there the possibility to exted it so the translator sees the changes made in english since last changes (I mean show the last rollback) so the translator knows what is exactly to be editied in his language?
5. Can we add RTL languages here along with LTR?
5. SEO: can we have seo friendly URLs (or custom alias urls) per language content including the meta tags?
6. Everyone talks about Multisite structure better over 1:1. I like your 1:1 as it is tight. Could you tell us more benifits over Multisite structure?
Thank you.
Love,
Angelo
Hello Angelo,
If you are asking about the Polyglot package, here are some answers to your questions:
1. Yes, as soon as you add a new language, it will appear in the drop down automatically on all front-end pages so your site's visitors will see that the language is available. When you need to enter a translation in the new language for a page, just right click on the page and select create translations in order for the appropriate translation node to be created.
2. The package supports working with panes, as described in the documentation in the section "An alternative way to work using tabs". It takes a bit more work, but it is possible.
3. There is no special rollback functionality added by the Polyglot package. Nevertheless, the standard Umbraco rollback functionality should work as expected.
4. You can always extend the package if you would like to. The source code is openly available and everyone is free to modify it as they see fit :)
5. (RTL - LTR) I guess that you can, as long as you create the appropriate stylesheets and make sure that they are applied depending on the selected language.
5. (SEO) At the moment the package creates urls that look like this: http://your.domain.here/aPage/aSubPage?lang=fr. I have found that using a different kind of urls would alter the versatility of the package and its capacity to default to an existing language when translations are not available. However, as stated before, everyone can modify the package for their own sites if they choose to.
6. I don't really think that there is a "better" way to offer multilingual content. I think that it depends on the requirements for each site. I find that multiple sites are good with respect to SEO and feeling "closer to home" for whomever is accessing them, since even their entire urls can be translated into a local language. They are also useful when the content is not simply translated but it is fundamentally different in each of the offered languages. An example of this would be an on-line store selling different products in different countries. A 1:1 solution like the polyglot package on the other hand ensures that even if some part of the content has not been translated in a certain language, visitors to the site who have selected that language will at least be made aware of its existence, since the site will default to the basic language. This also allows you to work faster in my opinion, publishing pages whenever you need to and knowing that the page will immediately be visible to all visitors. You can then take your time to translate it whenever it is convenient for you. Finally, specifically in Umbraco, I find working with the Polyglot package simpler since all my translations are contained in a single content tree. I can then use the capacity of Umbraco to hold multiple trees in order to have multiple sites running on one Umbraco installation (separate ones, not translations of a single site), each one of which can offer multilingual nodes, using the package.
I hope that this helps!
Best regards,
Dimitri
Hi Dimitri,
I am very much thankful to you for taking time and answering my queries regarding the multilingual approach in umbraco.
I am getting inclined to Polyglot approach now as our site will be mainly 1:1.
Regarding SEO, I assume that we can continue to use your URL scheme and then add on top of it IIS7's URLREWRITING module or REWRITES via MODULES in web.config. This way, we can get the URL scheme as desired and hence need not modify Polyglot's coding to change the URL scheme.
I hope this approach will work well and there will not be any conflict. Please confirm.
Another question is that Umbraco 5 is coming soon which will be MVC based. Umbraco 4.7 is webforms based. So, if we start building our site in Umbraco 4.7, will it be easier to switch the site to MVC when new Umbraco 5 comes up? Will Polyglot upgrade be provided from your end or we need to do the code transition ourselves?
Or, do you recommend to wait building the multilingual site till Umbraco 5 is in production?
The reason I am asking is that our website will be having thousands of pages with may editors, and so on.
Thanks again Dimitri so much for your valuable time.
Love,
Angelo
Hello Angelo,
No problem! I'm glad I could help. Thank you for your interest in the Polyglot package.
I haven't really tried using url rewriting to map urls to the package's parameter based addresses but your idea seems quite feasible to me. I cannot think of any reason why it wouldn't work. Of course, one can never be sure until such a system is tested :)
About migrating to 5, if I am not mistaken, there will not be a way to automatically migrate an entire Umbraco 4 site to version 5 but a way will be offered to at least transfer the data between the two versions. If that is true, as far as the content is concerned (data) there is no problem with already using the Polyglot package, as it does not modify the way Umbraco stores its data. Any Polyglot package associated data item would in that case be transferable to version 5, the same way that any Umbraco page would be. Now as far as the logic of the package is concerned, that would take a bit of coding to migrate, just like any custom made Umbraco 4 functionality would, I suppose.
Having said that, I am working on a version of the package that will work with Umbraco 5 but, unfortunately, I cannot make any promises about when exactly it will be ready.
Best regards,
Dimitri
Thanks Dimitri again.
One thing more: We want to start the development of our website in Umbraco. It will have thousands of pages going forwards.
Are you willing to work for us? We can plan for the payment via Paypal if that sounds good.
In case you are willing to work for us, please email me at: r i s h i [a t] o s h o dot n e t
I will share the details of our requirements with you.
Love,
Angelo
Hi Angelo,
You're welcome!
Also, I would like to thank you for the offer. I really appreciate it.
However, I am afraid that, due to my current work arrangements, I would not be able to follow up on it.
If you have any further questions though, please feel free to contact me via the package's forum or by any other way you believe is suitable.
Best regards,
Dimitri
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