As a Umbraco newbie, I'm just wondering why Xslt is so prominent in the Umbraco framework. Was this design decision made because of performance reasons or is there another reason.
You don't have to use xslt, you can use the API, Linq2Umbraco and also very soon the Razor view engine.
Umbraco content gets cached as XML so XSLT is well suited.
Some people don't like xslt, often because they have never used it before Umbraco, I was certainly in that category but now I think it's great, its flexible and very fast.
Thanks again for the answer. I never used Xslt before Umbraco indeed, So I was wondering what the advantage was of using Xslt. But now I understand it's very fast as no roundtrips to the server are needed. I think I might delve into this technology a bit more, as indeed it seems very flexible. It's just yet another technology to learn, and with Razor and Umbraco 5 lurking around the corner, one might ask himself if it's worth the effort to delve deep in Xslt.
Thanks also for the link to the video on Xslt, but I took an Umbraco.Tv subscription, so yeah, I already seen some video's on Xslt.
If someone has a reference on a good Xslt book, please be my guest.
When you mention Razor, I'm as well looking foward to it. But in my opinion it can't replace XSLT. I think Razor looks like a great idea when you want to create something simple, and the workflow around creating a macro, writing the xslt, and then inserting the macro in your template is to much work for one small thing.
I'd still go for XSLT when it's something more complex or challenging than just a small output of data.
Ohh, I almost forgot - the books about XSLT that you asked about.
I have got a book called Beginning XSLT 2.0: From Novice to Professional by Jeni Tennison. Even though it's XSLT 2.0 I think it's a good book when you want to learn XSLT. When talking about XSLT, Jeni Tennison is THE KING (well, since she's a female we might call her a queen). But she has written other books, like this one: XSLT and XPath On The Edge. I haven't read it myself, but if I'm not all wrong Chriztian Steinmeier praised it the other day at the XSLT Ping Pong Festival. So I think that's my next XSLT book right there ;)
The nature of Umbraco is that it should be flexible and extendible. So by providing more alternatives on how to fetch and manipulate your data makes sense. Backend developers will probably embrace Razor more than frontend developers because they think that XSLT does not make sense to them and frontend developers will probably stick with XSLT since Razor may not make sense to them. But it's also about using the right tool for the job and in some cases Razor might be the obvious choise over XSLT, Linq umbraco:item, user controls or python and vice versa.
@Jan, thanks for the insight, I never looked upon it as a choice for frontend and backend developers. I heard about Linq umbraco:item but I'm still absorbing the Umbraco fundamentals :) But I'm pretty convinced now that learning Xslt is a good investment of my time and money (see my reply to Kim).
Anthony, I'm pretty sure that the book you ordered will still help in your way of learning XSLT. And as the description says: "This book is for web developers, authors, and designers who understand XML basics, and are interested in gaining a solid understanding of XSLT processing.", you'll probably learn XSLT by reading this book, so I'm sure you are fine anyway ;)
why Xslt?
Hi,
As a Umbraco newbie, I'm just wondering why Xslt is so prominent in the Umbraco framework. Was this design decision made because of performance reasons or is there another reason.
Thanks for the information,
Anthony Candaele
Belgium
You don't have to use xslt, you can use the API, Linq2Umbraco and also very soon the Razor view engine.
Umbraco content gets cached as XML so XSLT is well suited.
Some people don't like xslt, often because they have never used it before Umbraco, I was certainly in that category but now I think it's great, its flexible and very fast.
Not sure from your post if you've used xslt a lot, if not there's a video intro here http://umbraco.org/help-and-support/video-tutorials/introduction-to-umbraco/sitebuilder-introduction/creating-your-first-xslt-macro
Rich
Hi Rich,
Thanks again for the answer. I never used Xslt before Umbraco indeed, So I was wondering what the advantage was of using Xslt. But now I understand it's very fast as no roundtrips to the server are needed. I think I might delve into this technology a bit more, as indeed it seems very flexible. It's just yet another technology to learn, and with Razor and Umbraco 5 lurking around the corner, one might ask himself if it's worth the effort to delve deep in Xslt.
Thanks also for the link to the video on Xslt, but I took an Umbraco.Tv subscription, so yeah, I already seen some video's on Xslt.
If someone has a reference on a good Xslt book, please be my guest.
Anthony Candaele
Belgium
Hi Anthony
When you mention Razor, I'm as well looking foward to it. But in my opinion it can't replace XSLT. I think Razor looks like a great idea when you want to create something simple, and the workflow around creating a macro, writing the xslt, and then inserting the macro in your template is to much work for one small thing.
I'd still go for XSLT when it's something more complex or challenging than just a small output of data.
/Kim A
Ohh, I almost forgot - the books about XSLT that you asked about.
I have got a book called Beginning XSLT 2.0: From Novice to Professional by Jeni Tennison. Even though it's XSLT 2.0 I think it's a good book when you want to learn XSLT. When talking about XSLT, Jeni Tennison is THE KING (well, since she's a female we might call her a queen). But she has written other books, like this one: XSLT and XPath On The Edge. I haven't read it myself, but if I'm not all wrong Chriztian Steinmeier praised it the other day at the XSLT Ping Pong Festival. So I think that's my next XSLT book right there ;)
/Kim A
The nature of Umbraco is that it should be flexible and extendible. So by providing more alternatives on how to fetch and manipulate your data makes sense. Backend developers will probably embrace Razor more than frontend developers because they think that XSLT does not make sense to them and frontend developers will probably stick with XSLT since Razor may not make sense to them. But it's also about using the right tool for the job and in some cases Razor might be the obvious choise over XSLT, Linq umbraco:item, user controls or python and vice versa.
/Jan
@Kim, thanks for the book advice, I wiched I read your comment earlier because I already ordered:
Beginning XSLT and XPATH: Transforming XML Documents and Data (Wrox Programmer to Programmer)
by: Ian Williams
@Jan, thanks for the insight, I never looked upon it as a choice for frontend and backend developers. I heard about Linq umbraco:item but I'm still absorbing the Umbraco fundamentals :) But I'm pretty convinced now that learning Xslt is a good investment of my time and money (see my reply to Kim).
Anthony
No doubt that learning XSLT is a very good investment - And I think you'll gain good knowledge from that book as well.
Just a note, Linq2umbraco and umbraco:item is not the same thing.
Happy learning :-)
/Jan
Anthony, I'm pretty sure that the book you ordered will still help in your way of learning XSLT. And as the description says: "This book is for web developers, authors, and designers who understand XML basics, and are interested in gaining a solid understanding of XSLT processing.", you'll probably learn XSLT by reading this book, so I'm sure you are fine anyway ;)
/Kim A
I have that book ( Beginning XSLT and XPATH: Transforming XML Documents and Data (Wrox Programmer to Programmer) by Ian williams as well and although my favourite it Jeni Tennison's Beginning XSLT, I like the Williams book as well as it is very concise but easier to work through quickly.
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