I prefer the first approach with mutliple root nodes (one per language) rather than the 1:1 approach. I've found that, in practice, few sites can actually live with the 1:1 requirements of having the same page in every language... some pages are unique to some languages or are not relevant in all languages, and frequently it takes time for a page to be translated to each language and the client doesn't want to wait for all the translations before publishing the original-language content. So I prefer to have a site for each language as that gives maximum flexibility. But the 1:1 approach can certainly work if you can live with its requirements. That's one of the great benefits of umbraco... you can build a site to meet your precise needs!
As for search, you can also use the XSLTsearch package (http://our.umbraco.org/projects/xsltsearch) and specify the source node to start searching from... either -1 for the entire content tree in all languages, or create language-specific searches for each site. I suspect all the search options will have some way of limiting the search to specific fields or sections of the content tree, as Thomas noted above.
I disagree, you have several aproaches building multilingual sites. e.g. we have a site in germa and english, but the english content doesn't have as much nodes as the german content. Also you have to look at the nice url's. if you want a german site the germans want german urls not english ones (we german are a little bit complicated).
@Thomas, I hadn't really thought about the urls but that's another good point. Not that Germans are "a little bit complicated"... I like to think of you as "fun" and "interesting" :)
@Vlad, thanks for your input. It's nice to get feedback from a wide range of users and their preferences. Hopefully you'll find that umbraco's flexibility gives you enough options so that you can achieve the result you need for your site, even if not in quite the way you'd prefer at this time.
@Douglas - for me it's perfect to use because i'm a developer . But if a client come to me and tell me he want a multilanguage website , and he is not have experience with some cms it's hard for him to learn how to use multi language website . It's Sitecore the CMS that compare with umbraco .I'm new here but i have some experience with Sitecore , and i think it;s better than umbraco for multilanguage but i preferred umbraco.
Thats wierd becuase I actually find Umbraco easier than Sitecore to implement multilingual sites. Copy main site, assign the domain and language, fill out the language content and publish, job done.
Especially when the site has 19 different languages!!
Plus my clients find it easier too, but there again I guess its down to everyones own preference and what they are use too.
But it is also possible in umbraco. Just build up your site in one language, then you can copy the whole tree with referencing to tho old one. Didn't used the references before, but it should work. Perhaps there is one out there with experience for the references
I agree with Douglas that having a folder (eg. 'en', 'dk', etc...) for every language version of the website is a better idea than having a 1:1 website.
The only question I have is if you got to have multiple domain names for this solution or if you can work with just one Umbraco installation and one domain name.
This is one of the most underestimate problems when implementing CMS's. And when not implementing it right from the start, the whole site can end up in one big mess, the problem is that the client often says: we want multilanguage implemented, but in fact they mean that they have multiple sites, with multiple translations!!!
IE, the following situation, which we actually had to implement, a small bank, which was active in:
-The Netherlands -Belgium -Spain -UK
As an extra problem, the client had as requirement that content in the Belgium site should ALWAYS available in both French and Dutch. Ok, so far not a real problem, but during our implementation we also found out that each country had different requirements opening an account.
For this site we decided the approach with multiple tabs/fields as mentioned earlier in this topic, but during the implementation of the search, we found out that we had a big problem (this site was build in and old version of Mediasurface based on the PERL api).
Some lessons i have learned when building multilingual/multi country sites:
-Always implement multilingual functionality from start, doing it later is much more work, even using a "dummy" language is an option -Consider using a CMS that has native multilanguage support, i prefer EPI Server above Umbraco for multilanguage sites. -Find out or your CMS supports tooling for translation agencies -Use real content when building the site, some languages like german take more space, and especially menu items can look different.... -Domain/SEO strategy: Does every country has it owns domain, or are you gonna prefix/suffix with a country/language extension? Think about duplicate content, cross domain security issues, and addition cost of licenses! -Make sure that all content can be translated in the CMS, think about field labels, error messages, etc.
But for Umbraco specific, i prefer the way of multiple sitetrees, it's not ideal, but in cases where a client can't afford to pay 15K or more for a CMS with native multi language support, this is a reasonable alternative.
A while ago i had a discussion with a colleague to do it on an alternative way, it takes some extra coding, but i think it must be possible, can someone tell me or this might work?
Every Documenttype has a childtype which has only one property: Language, which is a dropdown with the availble languages: so in your site, you get a normal structure, except that every document can have a child with the translated type. Something like this:
-Home -Item1 -Item1Translation French
-Item1Translation German -Item2 -Item2Translation French
-Item2Translation German
Multilanguage site
I want to create a multilanguage site .
I want the step for creating the site. But i want to create the structure automatically .
For example i have 2 languages: en and dk .
How it's better : to have multiple items or to have multiple virtual tabs for languages .
en-
Site1
-- sub site 1
-- sub site 2
dk-Site1
-- sub site 1
-- sub site 2
- -- sub site 2
Other question is: how to implement the searching for this type of site .
we are using the first apporach...
For searching you can use my simple search for umbraco
Thomas
BTW: For one site we are using also the second approach having an 1:1 multilingual site. See this post.
Thomas
I prefer the first approach with mutliple root nodes (one per language) rather than the 1:1 approach. I've found that, in practice, few sites can actually live with the 1:1 requirements of having the same page in every language... some pages are unique to some languages or are not relevant in all languages, and frequently it takes time for a page to be translated to each language and the client doesn't want to wait for all the translations before publishing the original-language content. So I prefer to have a site for each language as that gives maximum flexibility. But the 1:1 approach can certainly work if you can live with its requirements. That's one of the great benefits of umbraco... you can build a site to meet your precise needs!
As for search, you can also use the XSLTsearch package (http://our.umbraco.org/projects/xsltsearch) and specify the source node to start searching from... either -1 for the entire content tree in all languages, or create language-specific searches for each site. I suspect all the search options will have some way of limiting the search to specific fields or sections of the content tree, as Thomas noted above.
cheers,
doug.
I worked with other cms and there was for every item version for languages .
It;s more simpler than in umbracco . You have a llitle combobox and select the language.
You don't need to have multiple website ,or multiple tabs for all languages .
Maybe in the future version will be implemented .
Best regards , Vlad
I disagree, you have several aproaches building multilingual sites. e.g. we have a site in germa and english, but the english content doesn't have as much nodes as the german content. Also you have to look at the nice url's. if you want a german site the germans want german urls not english ones (we german are a little bit complicated).
Thomas
@Thomas, I hadn't really thought about the urls but that's another good point. Not that Germans are "a little bit complicated"... I like to think of you as "fun" and "interesting" :)
@Vlad, thanks for your input. It's nice to get feedback from a wide range of users and their preferences. Hopefully you'll find that umbraco's flexibility gives you enough options so that you can achieve the result you need for your site, even if not in quite the way you'd prefer at this time.
cheers,
doug.
@Douglas - for me it's perfect to use because i'm a developer . But if a client come to me and tell me he want a multilanguage website , and he is not have experience with some cms it's hard for him to learn how to use multi language website . It's Sitecore the CMS that compare with umbraco .I'm new here but i have some experience with Sitecore , and i think it;s better than umbraco for multilanguage but i preferred umbraco.
Best regards , Vlad .
Thats wierd becuase I actually find Umbraco easier than Sitecore to implement multilingual sites.
Copy main site, assign the domain and language, fill out the language content and publish, job done.
Especially when the site has 19 different languages!!
Plus my clients find it easier too, but there again I guess its down to everyones own preference and what they are use too.
But it is also possible in umbraco. Just build up your site in one language, then you can copy the whole tree with referencing to tho old one. Didn't used the references before, but it should work. Perhaps there is one out there with experience for the references
Thomas
Ah, here is one: blog.hendyracher.co.uk/umbraco-relation-api/
Thomas
I agree with Douglas that having a folder (eg. 'en', 'dk', etc...) for every language version of the website is a better idea than having a 1:1 website.
The only question I have is if you got to have multiple domain names for this solution or if you can work with just one Umbraco installation and one domain name.
greetings,
Anthony Candaele
Belgium
This is one of the most underestimate problems when implementing CMS's. And when not implementing it right from the start, the whole site can end up in one big mess, the problem is that the client often says: we want multilanguage implemented, but in fact they mean that they have multiple sites, with multiple translations!!!
IE, the following situation, which we actually had to implement, a small bank, which was active in:
-The Netherlands
-Belgium
-Spain
-UK
As an extra problem, the client had as requirement that content in the Belgium site should ALWAYS available in both French and Dutch.
Ok, so far not a real problem, but during our implementation we also found out that each country had different requirements opening an account.
For this site we decided the approach with multiple tabs/fields as mentioned earlier in this topic, but during the implementation of the search, we found out that we had a big problem (this site was build in and old version of Mediasurface based on the PERL api).
Some lessons i have learned when building multilingual/multi country sites:
-Always implement multilingual functionality from start, doing it later is much more work, even using a "dummy" language is an option
-Consider using a CMS that has native multilanguage support, i prefer EPI Server above Umbraco for multilanguage sites.
-Find out or your CMS supports tooling for translation agencies
-Use real content when building the site, some languages like german take more space, and especially menu items can look different....
-Domain/SEO strategy: Does every country has it owns domain, or are you gonna prefix/suffix with a country/language extension? Think about duplicate content, cross domain security issues, and addition cost of licenses!
-Make sure that all content can be translated in the CMS, think about field labels, error messages, etc.
But for Umbraco specific, i prefer the way of multiple sitetrees, it's not ideal, but in cases where a client can't afford to pay 15K or more for a CMS with native multi language support, this is a reasonable alternative.
A while ago i had a discussion with a colleague to do it on an alternative way, it takes some extra coding, but i think it must be possible, can someone tell me or this might work?
Every Documenttype has a childtype which has only one property: Language, which is a dropdown with the availble languages: so in your site, you get a normal structure, except that every document can have a child with the translated type. Something like this:
-Home
-Item1
-Item1Translation French
-Item1Translation German
-Item2
-Item2Translation French
-Item2Translation German
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