Specifically, I'm wondering if MVC must be installed on the server. MVC will not be used in my Web site, and it will likely not be available on the host server. Will this be a problem?
Thanks,
Lee
P.S. This forum has serious issues in IE 10. I cannot edit my post at all.
I am not sure if this will help, but I found a blog entry by Rob Willis in which he provides a general outline of his server setups where he installed Umbarco 6. The below quote is directly from his blog and I have provided a link to access the blog posting I located. I hope this helps.
"Server setup
All of the servers are running Windows Server 2008 R2 and the configuration is as follows:
2 IIS 7.5/ARR Servers w/ NLB (The load balancers)
2 IIS 7.5 Web Servers w/ ASP 4.0 & PHP 5.4 (via Fast-CGI)
Best way to find out if it works with your requirements is to set up a test server and have a play - i'm pretty sure the requirements for 6 are pretty much the same as 4.7...
Thanks for the suggestion, but I find it preposterous. Any software worth using has at least the documentation to indicate the system requirements. Should I try Umbraco 6 on every combination of IIS, SQL Server, and MVC version? I know open source software is required to have little or no documentation, but come on, system requirements?!
Yes, Microsoft had a bad regex in the browser definitions files a couple years ago. Is that not enough time to get it resolved here on these forums?
Define the system you want to run it on and what you'll probably find is that someone else is running it on exactly the same system.
As I say i'm pretty sure that the requirements will be exactly the same as 4.7. By the time you get the system requirements page updated for version 6 you could already have a site setup and running - just sayin'....
IE10 - wow I didn't realise the post was that old - i'm sure that would have been sorted so this entry has just been submitted using IE10 on Windows 7 and edited the post above - so it must be something your end to be giving you issues.
I can't find the unit tests to run when I get Umbraco set up on my I-don't-know-if-this-environment-is-supported environment. Can you please send me yours? Or, do you expect me to click through every piece of functionality in Umbraco--and to already know with certainty what the outcome should be? That sounds like a great use of my time, and everyone else's who does or would use Umbraco 6. Or, we could get system requirements and save lots of people lots of time.
IE 10: I'm running IE 10 on Windows 8. I'll try to edit this post after I submit it to see if it happens again, or if it was a fluke.
As a software developer I expect to have a crack myself and also work out some of the things myself rather than finding a magic document that gives me all the answers.
Environment I run is Server 2008, SQL Server 2008 R2, IIS 7.5, .Net 4., umbraco 4.7.1, 4.11.8 and 6.0.5 all run in this environment if that helps...
As a professional business-software solution developer I expect to have minimum system requirements for the software I run that I didn't build. Magic document? You've gone off the deep end, Mark. I appreciate your time and your trying to help, but I posted here in search of system requirements--a fundamental specification for any software. Your trying to talk me out of wanting them or expecting to get them is not helpful.
I'm not trying to talk you out of anything. I'm just saying that the requirements for 6 are no doubt exactly the same as the requirements for 4 that you have already found and if you just set up an environment using the latest apps and server technology you will be fine.
Sometimes if a document isn't there you still have to crack on with what you actually need to do. I'm sure at some point the community will catch up with the documentation but I'm also sure that it's pretty low priority compared to any high impact bugs or problems that may have been raised.
Why not go with a 4.11.8 site if not having the system requirements for 6 worries you so much?
The requirements for Umbraco 6 are apparently not the same as Umbraco 4. I did a binary comparison of the two ZIP files before posting here. Yep, I'm crazy like that. Your idea of "just try it" is ridiculous. You need to stop proposing it if you want to be taken seriously. Shall I tell a Fortune-500 client, "Just try it; it will possibly work."? "If it doesn't, just keep trying until it does. Send the bill for your time to Mark." Craziness--sheer craziness. Have shame for proposing it, Mark.
If a document--which covers system requirements--isn't available, the solution is to point it out and get it created; "to have a crack" is for a hack, not a professional software developer.
Why not go with 4.11.8 you ask. Because that has no stated system requirements either. 4.7 is old and it's the latest version I can find requirements for. I'm truly trying to be helpful in pointing out that there is a serious documentation issue that needs to be addressed. It's so fundamental--and so easy to address, for the team, that the only acceptable solution is to address it.
I anxiously await your reply in which you find new wording for "just play with it", "set it up and run it", "have a crack", or some other whimsical phrasing. "Play with it?" I'm not playing; I'm serious.
Set it up in a development environment and be serious if you want to. This is an open source product and while I agree that getting the documentation up to scratch is important it isn't going to be on a high priority for any developer.
If you wanted to put it into a Fortune 500 company then i'm pretty sure they would do some product evaluation first, followed by getting a plan and some specifications together, they'd then probably run unit tests, system tests and QA tests before anything went into a production environment. They may also run some penetration tests and maybe some benchmarking and performance tests but i'm sure you probably new all that as you are 'crazy like that'.
Umbraco 4 and 6 are very different I didn't say they were the same - they wouldn't be different versions if they were the same now would they. I just said that the system requirements for them will be similar the same as they are both .Net based applications.
Not sure the philosophical discussion is productive. Let's simply agree that there should be some minimum requirements documentation somewhere and give Lee a #h5yr (High Five, You Rock!) for bringing it to everyone's attention. I think Umbraco HQ and the community owes it to ourselves to not give any client a reason to not pick Umbraco because the docs are lacking.
Please try to encourage not supress this kind of information (bugs, etc) being posted publically. If not, we will go down the road on the v5 debacle.
Thanks Lee for posting about this! Could you please update this thread when you get some good information from HQ? If not, let me know and I'll see if I can help.
Does anyone know what version of MVC needs to be installed in a server to run a V6.1.3 site in MVC mode? The docs at http://our.umbraco.org/documentation/Installation/system-requirements say MVC 3 but that was for 4.7.x. Has it changed for later versions? Just trying to get to the bottom of other issues:-
Yes, there should be an overview of the minimum and preferred requirements. I've asked for it and never received any conclusive answers. In addition to the required components, security settings, etc. I'd also like to know the requirements for RAM, disk space, CPU, etc.
I've worked with many vendors and applications (some very large, very expensive, well-known apps) and more often than not the information one receives is not all that helpful or accurate. My impression is that the requirements are just a guess, multiplied by x to be sure. In addition, many well-known ($100,000+ applications) are poorly written, poorly documented, don't adhere to standards, and perform poorly. When I analyze a multi-tier app (performance, network packet analysis) I often see things that makes you wonder if the developers know what they're doing. And don't get me started on apps that are supposedly PCI-DSS compliant... (certified and all) Umbraco is a relatively solid package and problems tend to be fixed relatively quickly. There's also a lot of innovation. Having said that, the documentation needs a lot of help, I'm afraid.
Let's get this thread back on track and see if we can come up with a list of requirements. For starters, here's the information on one of the sites I'm responsible for:
SQL server:
Dedicated (I can get the details from our DBAs if desired)
Web Server* (shared with large, commercial CMS):
VMWare
IIS 7.5
Intel Xeon @ 2.20 GHz (4 processors)
RAM: 8 GB
Win Server 2008 R2 Standard, SP1 (64-bit)
50 GB Hard Drive
Application Delivery Appliance ('load balancer):
Redundant pair of F5 LTMs
Caching is enabled on the LTM, so not every request from a client will actually make it to the web server.
Site Details:
Monthly unique visitors: ~30,000
Monthly page views: ~50,000
Concurrent users: 1-10 (?). Not sure (yet) what the peak is.
Nodes in Umbraco (pages): ~600
*We're currently running the site on a single web server, but we're working to roll it to a server farm.
For some smaller sites I'm running everything (IIS, SQL Express) on a single server with 6GB RAM.
I'm in the process of setting up a test environment so I can do some load testing, but since I'm swamped with other projects that make take a (long) while.
Great that you are trying to get to such a detail level with this notoriously tricky topic. There are myriad factors to consider, some of which @Arie points out in the last post. And once you try to get a handle on request size and type (which is a giant part of sizing an environment AFAIK) things get even murkier.
We started with the most basic requirements in the documentation section here
But it would be fantastic if the outcome of this thread were encapsulated in that same documentation section with all the details. Massive thanks to the members who tackle this topic and provide the documentation update so that others in the community benefit.
Minimum System Requirements for Umbraco 6
Hello. I'm looking for minimum system requirements for hosting Umbraco 6. I found a page that covers 4.0 through 4.7 here: http://our.umbraco.org/wiki/recommendations/recommended-reading-for-it-administrators/minimum-system-requirements
Specifically, I'm wondering if MVC must be installed on the server. MVC will not be used in my Web site, and it will likely not be available on the host server. Will this be a problem?
Thanks,
Lee
P.S. This forum has serious issues in IE 10. I cannot edit my post at all.
I am not sure if this will help, but I found a blog entry by Rob Willis in which he provides a general outline of his server setups where he installed Umbarco 6. The below quote is directly from his blog and I have provided a link to access the blog posting I located. I hope this helps.
"Server setup
All of the servers are running Windows Server 2008 R2 and the configuration is as follows:
http://robwillis.info/2013/04/umbraco-6-stuck-at-connecting-to-database-5-complete-when-using-iis-7-5-mysql-5-5/
Thanks, Brian. I'm still seeking definitive system requirements for Umbraco 6. I just want to see an updated entry, for Umbraco 6.0.x on the page I linked to (http://our.umbraco.org/wiki/recommendations/recommended-reading-for-it-administrators/minimum-system-requirements), or to be pointed to the equivalent information for Umbraco 6. I need to know the required versions and editions for IIS, SQL Server, ASP.NET, MVC, trust, app pool, etc.
Further, I'd like to ensure that Umbraco 6 can be deployed with bin-deployed MVC, versus MVC being installed on the server.
, Lee
Lee,
Best way to find out if it works with your requirements is to set up a test server and have a play - i'm pretty sure the requirements for 6 are pretty much the same as 4.7...
IE10 has general issues with .Net based sites and their is a server hotfix for this. You can blame that litttle known company Microsoft for that blunder.
http://www.hanselman.com/blog/BugAndFixASPNETFailsToDetectIE10CausingDoPostBackIsUndefinedJavaScriptErrorOrMaintainFF5ScrollbarPosition.aspx
Mark..
- I just edited this in IE10.
Mark,
Thanks for the suggestion, but I find it preposterous. Any software worth using has at least the documentation to indicate the system requirements. Should I try Umbraco 6 on every combination of IIS, SQL Server, and MVC version? I know open source software is required to have little or no documentation, but come on, system requirements?!
Yes, Microsoft had a bad regex in the browser definitions files a couple years ago. Is that not enough time to get it resolved here on these forums?
, Lee
Lee,
Lots of things in life are preposterous....
Define the system you want to run it on and what you'll probably find is that someone else is running it on exactly the same system.
As I say i'm pretty sure that the requirements will be exactly the same as 4.7. By the time you get the system requirements page updated for version 6 you could already have a site setup and running - just sayin'....
IE10 - wow I didn't realise the post was that old - i'm sure that would have been sorted so this entry has just been submitted using IE10 on Windows 7 and edited the post above - so it must be something your end to be giving you issues.
Mark..
Mark,
I can't find the unit tests to run when I get Umbraco set up on my I-don't-know-if-this-environment-is-supported environment. Can you please send me yours? Or, do you expect me to click through every piece of functionality in Umbraco--and to already know with certainty what the outcome should be? That sounds like a great use of my time, and everyone else's who does or would use Umbraco 6. Or, we could get system requirements and save lots of people lots of time.
IE 10: I'm running IE 10 on Windows 8. I'll try to edit this post after I submit it to see if it happens again, or if it was a fluke.
, Lee
Lee,
As a software developer I expect to have a crack myself and also work out some of the things myself rather than finding a magic document that gives me all the answers.
Environment I run is Server 2008, SQL Server 2008 R2, IIS 7.5, .Net 4., umbraco 4.7.1, 4.11.8 and 6.0.5 all run in this environment if that helps...
Mark.
As a professional business-software solution developer I expect to have minimum system requirements for the software I run that I didn't build. Magic document? You've gone off the deep end, Mark. I appreciate your time and your trying to help, but I posted here in search of system requirements--a fundamental specification for any software. Your trying to talk me out of wanting them or expecting to get them is not helpful.
, Lee
My guess is that it would actually be best in the new documentation section of the site:
http://our.umbraco.org/documentation/Installation/
Perhaps contact @cultiv on twitter and ask him if he could add that to the documentation project.
Thanks,
Jason
Lee,
I'm not trying to talk you out of anything. I'm just saying that the requirements for 6 are no doubt exactly the same as the requirements for 4 that you have already found and if you just set up an environment using the latest apps and server technology you will be fine.
Sometimes if a document isn't there you still have to crack on with what you actually need to do. I'm sure at some point the community will catch up with the documentation but I'm also sure that it's pretty low priority compared to any high impact bugs or problems that may have been raised.
Why not go with a 4.11.8 site if not having the system requirements for 6 worries you so much?
Mark.
Jason, I reached out to @cultive. Thanks.
Mark,
The requirements for Umbraco 6 are apparently not the same as Umbraco 4. I did a binary comparison of the two ZIP files before posting here. Yep, I'm crazy like that. Your idea of "just try it" is ridiculous. You need to stop proposing it if you want to be taken seriously. Shall I tell a Fortune-500 client, "Just try it; it will possibly work."? "If it doesn't, just keep trying until it does. Send the bill for your time to Mark." Craziness--sheer craziness. Have shame for proposing it, Mark.
If a document--which covers system requirements--isn't available, the solution is to point it out and get it created; "to have a crack" is for a hack, not a professional software developer.
Why not go with 4.11.8 you ask. Because that has no stated system requirements either. 4.7 is old and it's the latest version I can find requirements for. I'm truly trying to be helpful in pointing out that there is a serious documentation issue that needs to be addressed. It's so fundamental--and so easy to address, for the team, that the only acceptable solution is to address it.
I anxiously await your reply in which you find new wording for "just play with it", "set it up and run it", "have a crack", or some other whimsical phrasing. "Play with it?" I'm not playing; I'm serious.
Lee,
Set it up in a development environment and be serious if you want to. This is an open source product and while I agree that getting the documentation up to scratch is important it isn't going to be on a high priority for any developer.
If you wanted to put it into a Fortune 500 company then i'm pretty sure they would do some product evaluation first, followed by getting a plan and some specifications together, they'd then probably run unit tests, system tests and QA tests before anything went into a production environment. They may also run some penetration tests and maybe some benchmarking and performance tests but i'm sure you probably new all that as you are 'crazy like that'.
Umbraco 4 and 6 are very different I didn't say they were the same - they wouldn't be different versions if they were the same now would they. I just said that the system requirements for them will be similar the same as they are both .Net based applications.
Mark.
Not sure the philosophical discussion is productive. Let's simply agree that there should be some minimum requirements documentation somewhere and give Lee a #h5yr (High Five, You Rock!) for bringing it to everyone's attention. I think Umbraco HQ and the community owes it to ourselves to not give any client a reason to not pick Umbraco because the docs are lacking.
Please try to encourage not supress this kind of information (bugs, etc) being posted publically. If not, we will go down the road on the v5 debacle.
Thanks Lee for posting about this! Could you please update this thread when you get some good information from HQ? If not, let me know and I'll see if I can help.
Thanks,
Jason
Does anyone know what version of MVC needs to be installed in a server to run a V6.1.3 site in MVC mode? The docs at http://our.umbraco.org/documentation/Installation/system-requirements say MVC 3 but that was for 4.7.x. Has it changed for later versions? Just trying to get to the bottom of other issues:-
Thanks
Craig
Umbraco is a relatively solid package and problems tend to be fixed relatively quickly. There's also a lot of innovation. Having said that, the documentation needs a lot of help, I'm afraid.
Hi All -
Great that you are trying to get to such a detail level with this notoriously tricky topic. There are myriad factors to consider, some of which @Arie points out in the last post. And once you try to get a handle on request size and type (which is a giant part of sizing an environment AFAIK) things get even murkier.
We started with the most basic requirements in the documentation section here
http://our.umbraco.org/documentation/Installation/system-requirements
But it would be fantastic if the outcome of this thread were encapsulated in that same documentation section with all the details. Massive thanks to the members who tackle this topic and provide the documentation update so that others in the community benefit.
-Paul
is working on a reply...