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  • William Burnett 213 posts 262 karma points
    Jun 08, 2013 @ 22:20
    William Burnett
    1

    Is it too much to ask?????

    Me again... So ignoring how still utterly bad this forum is (really, still no DATES on wiki posts, seach results, etc).... and all of the other frustrations with the actual act of maintaining and upgrading umbro...Would it honestly be too much to ask that you take the time to NOT constantly alter the formatting of the config files for lines that HAVE NOT changed from version to version????Really folks, it is bad enough that this is the only software product on planet earth that can not be upgraded without examining dozens of files with winmerge, but scanning through dozens of lines that are marked as "changed" only because a space or tab has been altered is crazy and after 5 years of it, I can't stay quiet any longer.So yes, I am upset of something stupid and petty that in reality it is not a big deal. However, in the big picture it is simply one more example of the problems with this project and the little bits of frustration at every turn, most of which could be easily mitigated with a bit of organization, thought and care.

  • William Burnett 213 posts 262 karma points
    Jun 08, 2013 @ 22:21
    William Burnett
    0

    Ohhh.....even better, this forum does not work with IE10... all formatting (Look at the mess aboce) is stripped from the post. Good grief. Why can't we just use off-the-shelf forum software that actually works?

  • Eric Herlitz 97 posts 129 karma points
    Jun 09, 2013 @ 19:28
    Eric Herlitz
    0

    Are you using IE10 with or without "compatibility mode"?

  • William Burnett 213 posts 262 karma points
    Jun 10, 2013 @ 15:32
    William Burnett
    0

    Eric:  Not to be flip, but it does not really matter what I am using (yes IE10, likely no compat mode when I made the post)... the bigger picture is simply how bad this forum ("our" site) has been and continues to be. The search is still beyond terrible and the editor is chokes more often than not. Blog posts are not dated, so you have no idea how "relevant" the "critical" information is, or if it has changed, etc.  I complain a lot, but honestly there is no excuse for this. The issues carry over into the actual product and work habbits of those contributing.

    So again... why EVERY TIME I upgrade a site, do I have to use winmerge to browse through dozens and dozens of lines of code where "/>" and "/ >" are the only differnce.  The jike is take a file like 123xyz.config and in one release it will be "/ >" so you update the config to match. Then in the next release, they will make it "/>" and winmerge AGAIN flags the line as different. It is pure laziness for contributors to not follow a coding convention and double check their work. Again, not a big deal, but in the bigger picture it is. As much as I love Umbraco, it is one of the most frustrating products/projects I have worked with or on.

    I have spent 5 days trying to upgrade from 6.0.6 to 6.1 and no matter what I do, I get a YSOD. I am sure it is something stupid that was not documented but it is again par for the course. Nothing with Umbraco installation is easy and coming to this forum and trying to find answers raises the frustration level instead of easing it.

  • Funka! 398 posts 660 karma points
    Jul 24, 2013 @ 20:17
    Funka!
    0

    I feel your frustration regarding the upgrade process and so the additional hassle of entire files looking different due to nothing but whitespace issues is even more painful, so much that I raised this topic last September in the issue tracker as U4-898, ... but I am not sure it ever gained any traction or offical adoption.

    In past projects I've worked on, changes to the repo don't get accepted if they don't follow the estabilshed conventions. There does not appear to be as strict of a policy here since we see the formatting change back and forth every other version or so, sometimes the whole file and sometimes only parts of files. So the best advice for now (or only advice, as the case may be) is to temporarily adjust your diff'ing program to ignore these whitespace differences (which is still a hassle, agreed).

    In my world, when you go to make your commit, by practice one should always compare the pending changes to what's currently in the repo, even if you're the only one working on the project. If I see 100 lines of whitespace changes, my personal approach is to NOT commit these hundreds of whitespace changes and spend a moment making things consistent. Constantly changing my diff'ing engine rules back and forth all the time isn't viable, as I use it for lots of other things too besides Umbraco upgrades. (Maybe I need a different diff'ing program that makes this easier to toggle or has profiles for such a thing so I don't forget to put it back.) Or maybe what would be even more ideal is an upgrade script that could programmatically upgrade our config files and prompt on the items that truly need manual attention. Crazy talk!

  • Arie 224 posts 675 karma points
    Jul 24, 2013 @ 23:12
    Arie
    0

    Although I could configure the file comparison app I'm using (Beyond Compare) to ignore whitespace, I do agree that whitespace shouldn't be changed between versions. Same with EOL. To compound the issue, I have the impression (going on memory) that sometimes comments are removed in one version and re-introduced later on. The same is true for the XML-tag at the beginning on some of the config files. Seems that they're being changed back and forth between versions.

    Regarding the wiki, it absolutely should indicate the date for each article! Way too much risk that old information is used to configure newer versions.

  • Funka! 398 posts 660 karma points
    Jul 25, 2013 @ 21:18
    Funka!
    0

    Upgrading a site today from 6.1.2 to 6.1.3 introduces a bunch of new blank lines and inconsistent/wild changes to the formatting of many config files, and a fun new twist of whole sections that used to span multiple lines now being jammed into a single line (and vice versa).

    My new approach? Open both your original/backup config files and then the new config files, select all, then CTRL-K, CTRL-F in visual studio to apply new consistent formatting to the whole thing and save. Then comparisons can be made much easier. This may very well save a tiny bit of my sanity in these upgrades!

  • William Charlton 170 posts 217 karma points
    Oct 08, 2013 @ 18:13
    William Charlton
    1

    I agree, what is the problem with listing the changes from version to version?

    If we knew someone who could build software it would even be possible to "select distinct" from one build to another to see ALL the changes, then it might be possible to upgrade. When the security problem hit in May all we could do was cross our fingers and stop using Umbraco for future web sites.

    I'm updating a site from 4.11.1 to 6.1.3 and it isn't fun.

    A common reaction to any complaint is for an Umbraco fanatic to go on the attack, not helpful. We complain because we WANT to use Umbraco but find it so arcane and we seem to be up against such a closed group of afficianados who just can't see what the problem is that we almost have no alternative other than to move to another platform - daft.

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