Hopefully I do not offend anyone with this posts, but I wanted to share a few thoughts regarding some forum and offline discussions that I have been involved with or read about over the past week. I want to provide a springboard for additional discussion.
I have seen and been told about the grass-roots approach that was determined to be a great method of finding potential users and converting them to using umbraco. I totally 100% believe this is a necessary thing, but I have also seen a lot of angst about doing meet-ups for existing users that are wanting to extend their skills.
I was being heavily persuaded a few days ago to forego the US/North America Seminar in favor of attending existing user groups and building the userbase. I don't see these two approaches as being any bit the same, as the meet-ups are intended to bring existing users together, and provide them with the tools to go back and show to their own groups. Meet-ups are also a great networking tool to associate businesses with talent, as well as a great way to build loyalty.
It depends what the goals are of the person running the session(s).
In Australia we don't really know about the Umbraco usage, I don't really know more than a handful of other Umbraco developers from Australia, and they are people that I work with/ are formerly worked with.
My goal is to really start getting the word out about Umbraco, not trying to convert people over two Umbraco, but have people who are .NET developers be away of what Umbraco is, how it can be used and that they aren't alone in using it.
So that's all about getting the word out about Umbraco, and is more designed as introduction, not a skill building session.
Then there's another stream, skill building sessions; these are sessions which wouldn't be useful for non-Umbraco users.
I don't see why there would be a problem with having both running and possibly for by different people. An Umbraco talk at an existing DNUG would be more by someone who knows a lot about all of Umbraco where as an Umbraco user group would be more likely to be hosted by different group members as they talk about what they are more specialized in.
Absolutely there is room for both. I belive we're talking about two completely different audiences and two completely different objectives. .NET User Groups generally provide their members with an overview of a variety of .NET related topics. Umbraco is a great fit here as it solves so many issues .NET web developers commonly have. Umbraco user groups, I expect, are more about networking and diving deep into specific-umbraco topics.
In the long-view I hope to see more Umbraco users from the .NET groups and, eventually, a larger user base will lead to more regional Umbraco user groups. At least that is my view and what I assume will eventually occur.
The persuasion was more in the lines of trying to convince me to put efforts into the DNUG approach, and not so much in against having the Seminar. That was interpretable wording on my behalf.
I do see a difference, but after reading the retreat minutes regarding the non-European presences from the retreat, and other conversations, left me feeling that there was a push away from the meet-up philosophy.
Casey - that wasn't meant to be the implication of the retreat minutes, far from it in fact. Australia is a bit of a special case as I said as we don't really have any idea about how many of us there are and are active. Doing a search in my local area has yielded several people but none who seem to be active (ie - people from the old forum). I'd prefer to start with the DNUG approach since I'm a DNUG member and I'd presume other Umbraco users are.
But there definately is a plan for both in Australia
As I was one of the people you had a conversation with about this topic, I'm guessing I'm the one being described as"persuading" you into trying the grassroots route...
As our original conversation was about exposing new people to umbraco in the US, then yes I do believe going the grassroots way and getting into existing usergroups are a clever way of getting started. They already have infrastructure, website, mailinglists, audience etc etc. So you can with less effort reach more people.
Starting umbraco usergroups as a seperate thing will in the long run be great, but you need an audience, you need people to attend your meeting without 2/3s of the people having to travel +100 miles every time. If this is possible now, then that is fantastic, if it is currently not possible because people are too far apart etc etc, then *I* would use the existing groups as a way to getting started - just as Paul described in his reply.
Approach: Existing DNUG's vs Umbraco Groups
Hopefully I do not offend anyone with this posts, but I wanted to share a few thoughts regarding some forum and offline discussions that I have been involved with or read about over the past week. I want to provide a springboard for additional discussion.
I have seen and been told about the grass-roots approach that was determined to be a great method of finding potential users and converting them to using umbraco. I totally 100% believe this is a necessary thing, but I have also seen a lot of angst about doing meet-ups for existing users that are wanting to extend their skills.
I was being heavily persuaded a few days ago to forego the US/North America Seminar in favor of attending existing user groups and building the userbase. I don't see these two approaches as being any bit the same, as the meet-ups are intended to bring existing users together, and provide them with the tools to go back and show to their own groups. Meet-ups are also a great networking tool to associate businesses with talent, as well as a great way to build loyalty.
So, I ask: Should we not do both?
Case
It depends what the goals are of the person running the session(s).
In Australia we don't really know about the Umbraco usage, I don't really know more than a handful of other Umbraco developers from Australia, and they are people that I work with/ are formerly worked with.
My goal is to really start getting the word out about Umbraco, not trying to convert people over two Umbraco, but have people who are .NET developers be away of what Umbraco is, how it can be used and that they aren't alone in using it.
So that's all about getting the word out about Umbraco, and is more designed as introduction, not a skill building session.
Then there's another stream, skill building sessions; these are sessions which wouldn't be useful for non-Umbraco users.
I don't see why there would be a problem with having both running and possibly for by different people. An Umbraco talk at an existing DNUG would be more by someone who knows a lot about all of Umbraco where as an Umbraco user group would be more likely to be hosted by different group members as they talk about what they are more specialized in.
Personally, I definitely think there's room for both.
What have been the reasoning been from the people who've tried to heavily pursuade against a US seminar?
Absolutely there is room for both. I belive we're talking about two completely different audiences and two completely different objectives. .NET User Groups generally provide their members with an overview of a variety of .NET related topics. Umbraco is a great fit here as it solves so many issues .NET web developers commonly have. Umbraco user groups, I expect, are more about networking and diving deep into specific-umbraco topics.
In the long-view I hope to see more Umbraco users from the .NET groups and, eventually, a larger user base will lead to more regional Umbraco user groups. At least that is my view and what I assume will eventually occur.
-Paul
@Paul,
The persuasion was more in the lines of trying to convince me to put efforts into the DNUG approach, and not so much in against having the Seminar. That was interpretable wording on my behalf.
I do see a difference, but after reading the retreat minutes regarding the non-European presences from the retreat, and other conversations, left me feeling that there was a push away from the meet-up philosophy.
Thanks for the feedback.
Casey - that wasn't meant to be the implication of the retreat minutes, far from it in fact. Australia is a bit of a special case as I said as we don't really have any idea about how many of us there are and are active. Doing a search in my local area has yielded several people but none who seem to be active (ie - people from the old forum). I'd prefer to start with the DNUG approach since I'm a DNUG member and I'd presume other Umbraco users are.
But there definately is a plan for both in Australia
As I was one of the people you had a conversation with about this topic, I'm guessing I'm the one being described as"persuading" you into trying the grassroots route...
As our original conversation was about exposing new people to umbraco in the US, then yes I do believe going the grassroots way and getting into existing usergroups are a clever way of getting started. They already have infrastructure, website, mailinglists, audience etc etc. So you can with less effort reach more people.
Starting umbraco usergroups as a seperate thing will in the long run be great, but you need an audience, you need people to attend your meeting without 2/3s of the people having to travel +100 miles every time. If this is possible now, then that is fantastic, if it is currently not possible because people are too far apart etc etc, then *I* would use the existing groups as a way to getting started - just as Paul described in his reply.
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