So, I am a beginner. Coming from a PHP world and having implemented a few sites in Typo3, the ASP / XSLT world is new to me. But I have actually become less sceptic and more positive after working with the Umbraco system over the past weeks.
One thing strikes me though: the almost complete lack of fundamental tutorials for "dummies" and newbies. It's like everyone assumes that if you implement Umbraco you automatically know about where to do things, and a single screenshot or a few codelines is enough documentation.
Let me assure you: often it's not. And I found myself googling endless hours on various problems, often finding the solution on some randome blog post in a comment.
I know that Umbraco provides documentation as part of the business model, which is fine. It is a different way of doing things than over at Typo3, but understandable.
What I really would like though is more complete documentation for beginners, with videos and source code. So it's possible to learn what to do, where to apply the code and why it worked.
A nice example would be the "30 minutes from start to webpage" from Codegarden 09. Why is such perfect example left as forgotten notes in a Wiki ? (along with many other of the same kind).
Or, it could be "how to make a usable program in VS2010 and install in Umbraco".
It would not even have to be with voiceover, just a screencast with notes, along with source code. Or even a PDF.
Hope you can use some of this feedback. I think Umbraco has great potential - but please do not forget the documentation.
Of course you'll need a paid subscription (€19/mo) to watch all of them, but it's definitely a good place to start. I used these video tutorials to learn about the basics of datatypes, document types, templates and macros. But they also have some pretty advanced tutorials on how to extend Umbraco, create custom backend sections, hook into events, etcetera. And yes, if you want to use Umbraco you will need some basic knowledge of .NET, XML and XSLT.
I do agree that the documentation is scattered throughout the Umbraco website, WIKI and forum, but again... try the video tutorials and see if those help.
I do have paid subscription to the Umbraco.tv - should have mentioned.
What I am suggesting is to use the excellent video tutorials better, f.ex to have source code download of what is shown in the video. Also, I feel that sometimes videos take for granted that you have a background in VS development. Perhaps it would be good to include a few minutes with just slides as a "10 step quick guide".
And as I mentioned, there are TONS of interesting topics listed in the previous codegarden talks. I really would like to learn more about them. But unfortunately only the headlines are briefly listed in the wiki (my example: http://our.umbraco.org/wiki/codegarden-2009/open-space-minutes/website-start-to-finish-in-30-minutes). The gode garden talks would make excellent tutorials. And yes, I think most people would be prepared to PAY for video / PDF / whatever of the codegarden talks, as long as you would get sourcecode and screenshots instead of just headlines. This is business just waiting to be made, folks.
Please do not see this as criticism, only suggestions to improve and help new people use Umbraco.
I partially agree with you: the more video tutorials, structured documentation, and code samples the better. And I also feel the information available in the WIKI can be somewhat disappointing, especially when you're just starting out with Umbraco. But don't blame Umbraco for expecting some basic knowledge of .NET, XML, and XSLT, especially when you're planning on extending Umbraco with custom features. You don't expect to be able to develop for Drupal without some PHP knowledge, right?
I'd love to do a few video tutorials of my own on newbie topics.... (as that's all I could really cover with any confidence) is there anything else you think would be particularly useful not covered in Dougs 30 minute list?
Actually I would think that ANY subject listed in the OpenSpace of Codegarden 09 would be really interesting to learn about.
Why didn't Umbraco just put a camera in the room during these talks ? Videos without any efford at all, and yes, could be against pay like other video tutorials here!
A simple PDF tutorial would also do, like the folks over at Typo3 has done (although the PDFs listed are somewhat outdated).
Well, perhaps even a blog post would do if it had (working!) pictures. How about some kind of reward for the folks that hold the talks at CodeGarden, if they make their talk a tutorial and publish it ? Prizes ? Cash from subscriptions ? There are many business models to this that would benefit all.
I think I made my point, hopefully some Umbraco staff will read and listen :)
Just to chime in: It's incredibly difficult to get good audio at the open space sessions as there is a lot of people talking, sessions are outside and sometimes sessions are just nog all that easy to understand if you have no idea about how Umbraco works.
That being said, I think that, at the moment, if you want to find out about Umbraco the free video's on Umbraco.tv are nice and not too hard to follow. They touch on almost any beginner aspect of Umbraco. Then there's a lot of documentation in the wiki, if you're willing to look for it.
Anyway, a 15 beginners guide would definitely be good, so that you don't have to look around, it's just there.
I realise this post is quite old now, but as another complete novice to Umbraco I felt like I had to chime in on a few points, especially as this post is now almost 3 years old.
I agree with the original post that it's almost impossible to find useful, complete documentation, especially as a beginner, and I resent the suggestion that I should pay for video tutorials to learn the basics. In fact I resent having to watch video tutorials at all. I don't have time for them. I want to be able to scan a page of information and find what I need to know, not sit watching a video.
I've tried to sit through the videos but they're incomplete, I don't have that much time, and I'm not paying for a subscription. ( I seriously resent it...)
I agree that it's up to the individual to learn the underlying code for the technology, but in the web design / development culture, let's be honest, .NET and XSLT aren't the most popular...
First I wanted to note that in the last 3 years since this topic was started, there actually is now printed documenation, available by clicking Documenation in the nav bar at the top of this site. It's a work in progress from what I understand and is backed by a GitHub project I believe, so anyone is welcome to contribute.
But here's the actual reason for my post:
I am a paying subscriber to Umbraco TV (even though I haven't used it in a long while) and very well versed in the Umbraco 4 branch. I'm now interested in making the move to version 6 and thought I'd dust of my TV membership and check out what's new with version 6. Was very disappointed to see nothing about version 6 in here, and that the dropbox to filter by version seems to only go up to 4.7.1, which came out in 2011?
What I'd like to suggest for Umbraco TV is the following:
Each video should show the date it was published and the version it was using when filmed.
I'd also like a way to see the "newest" videos and not wade through 4 year old XLST videos to find these.
There should be some version 6 videos and the dropbox should show this!
Thank you for your consideration. Would love to keep the subscription running but without anything new, once you've seen what's there it's not really worth the continued subscription.
Hey Sebastiaan, thank you for the reply. I must say, that is a very pretty website!
However, after clicking through what's available, it looks like the same old videos from the original site (with my same frustrations regarding missing dates and versions used in the filming), as well as not finding anything that specifically addresses newest MVC functionality or anything like a crash course or something that covers what to know when "moving from version 4 to version 6."
So I'd still like to make those same suggestions in my bullet points above and hope they'll be considered. I did see the there is a nice "videos added" blurb on the new beta site's homepage, so for this I'd still love to see the dates they were added and be able to browse more than the last 3 sorted by this date.
@Funka a good tip, which I'll pass along! We're regularly adding videos, and yes they're similar material but they do show the razor way of doing things now. We're definitely planning on adding MVC videos but.. it takes time to make these videos. :-) We do very much value your input on the matter!
@Funka the new tv site is all about v6 and MVC so it's not the same old videos :) but thanks for your tips! We'll see how we can improve so it's easier to spot outdated vids
A beginner's view on Umbraco - suggestions for Umbraco.tv
So, I am a beginner. Coming from a PHP world and having implemented a few sites in Typo3, the ASP / XSLT world is new to me. But I have actually become less sceptic and more positive after working with the Umbraco system over the past weeks.
One thing strikes me though: the almost complete lack of fundamental tutorials for "dummies" and newbies. It's like everyone assumes that if you implement Umbraco you automatically know about where to do things, and a single screenshot or a few codelines is enough documentation.
Let me assure you: often it's not. And I found myself googling endless hours on various problems, often finding the solution on some randome blog post in a comment.
I know that Umbraco provides documentation as part of the business model, which is fine. It is a different way of doing things than over at Typo3, but understandable.
What I really would like though is more complete documentation for beginners, with videos and source code. So it's possible to learn what to do, where to apply the code and why it worked.
A nice example would be the "30 minutes from start to webpage" from Codegarden 09. Why is such perfect example left as forgotten notes in a Wiki ? (along with many other of the same kind).
Or, it could be "how to make a usable program in VS2010 and install in Umbraco".
It would not even have to be with voiceover, just a screencast with notes, along with source code. Or even a PDF.
Hope you can use some of this feedback. I think Umbraco has great potential - but please do not forget the documentation.
Thanks for taking the time to read this.
Torben
Did you check out all the video tutorials for site builders and developers in the Umbraco.TV section?
http://umbraco.org/videos
Of course you'll need a paid subscription (€19/mo) to watch all of them, but it's definitely a good place to start. I used these video tutorials to learn about the basics of datatypes, document types, templates and macros. But they also have some pretty advanced tutorials on how to extend Umbraco, create custom backend sections, hook into events, etcetera. And yes, if you want to use Umbraco you will need some basic knowledge of .NET, XML and XSLT.
I do agree that the documentation is scattered throughout the Umbraco website, WIKI and forum, but again... try the video tutorials and see if those help.
I completely agree with Arjan,
The good place to start is umbraco.tv and if you buy for a year it would be 199 EUR / 16.50 EUR pr. month.
it's worth to buy it as it is quite useful all the time.
Ali
I do have paid subscription to the Umbraco.tv - should have mentioned.
What I am suggesting is to use the excellent video tutorials better, f.ex to have source code download of what is shown in the video. Also, I feel that sometimes videos take for granted that you have a background in VS development. Perhaps it would be good to include a few minutes with just slides as a "10 step quick guide".
And as I mentioned, there are TONS of interesting topics listed in the previous codegarden talks. I really would like to learn more about them. But unfortunately only the headlines are briefly listed in the wiki (my example: http://our.umbraco.org/wiki/codegarden-2009/open-space-minutes/website-start-to-finish-in-30-minutes). The gode garden talks would make excellent tutorials. And yes, I think most people would be prepared to PAY for video / PDF / whatever of the codegarden talks, as long as you would get sourcecode and screenshots instead of just headlines. This is business just waiting to be made, folks.
Please do not see this as criticism, only suggestions to improve and help new people use Umbraco.
I partially agree with you: the more video tutorials, structured documentation, and code samples the better. And I also feel the information available in the WIKI can be somewhat disappointing, especially when you're just starting out with Umbraco. But don't blame Umbraco for expecting some basic knowledge of .NET, XML, and XSLT, especially when you're planning on extending Umbraco with custom features. You don't expect to be able to develop for Drupal without some PHP knowledge, right?
I'd love to do a few video tutorials of my own on newbie topics.... (as that's all I could really cover with any confidence)
is there anything else you think would be particularly useful not covered in Dougs 30 minute list?
Actually I would think that ANY subject listed in the OpenSpace of Codegarden 09 would be really interesting to learn about.
Why didn't Umbraco just put a camera in the room during these talks ? Videos without any efford at all, and yes, could be against pay like other video tutorials here!
A simple PDF tutorial would also do, like the folks over at Typo3 has done (although the PDFs listed are somewhat outdated).
Well, perhaps even a blog post would do if it had (working!) pictures. How about some kind of reward for the folks that hold the talks at CodeGarden, if they make their talk a tutorial and publish it ? Prizes ? Cash from subscriptions ? There are many business models to this that would benefit all.
I think I made my point, hopefully some Umbraco staff will read and listen :)
Just to chime in: It's incredibly difficult to get good audio at the open space sessions as there is a lot of people talking, sessions are outside and sometimes sessions are just nog all that easy to understand if you have no idea about how Umbraco works.
That being said, I think that, at the moment, if you want to find out about Umbraco the free video's on Umbraco.tv are nice and not too hard to follow. They touch on almost any beginner aspect of Umbraco. Then there's a lot of documentation in the wiki, if you're willing to look for it.
Anyway, a 15 beginners guide would definitely be good, so that you don't have to look around, it's just there.
Hi there,
I realise this post is quite old now, but as another complete novice to Umbraco I felt like I had to chime in on a few points, especially as this post is now almost 3 years old.
I agree with the original post that it's almost impossible to find useful, complete documentation, especially as a beginner, and I resent the suggestion that I should pay for video tutorials to learn the basics.
In fact I resent having to watch video tutorials at all.
I don't have time for them.
I want to be able to scan a page of information and find what I need to know, not sit watching a video.
I've tried to sit through the videos but they're incomplete, I don't have that much time, and I'm not paying for a subscription.
( I seriously resent it...)
I agree that it's up to the individual to learn the underlying code for the technology, but in the web design / development culture, let's be honest, .NET and XSLT aren't the most popular...
First I wanted to note that in the last 3 years since this topic was started, there actually is now printed documenation, available by clicking Documenation in the nav bar at the top of this site. It's a work in progress from what I understand and is backed by a GitHub project I believe, so anyone is welcome to contribute.
But here's the actual reason for my post:
I am a paying subscriber to Umbraco TV (even though I haven't used it in a long while) and very well versed in the Umbraco 4 branch. I'm now interested in making the move to version 6 and thought I'd dust of my TV membership and check out what's new with version 6. Was very disappointed to see nothing about version 6 in here, and that the dropbox to filter by version seems to only go up to 4.7.1, which came out in 2011?
What I'd like to suggest for Umbraco TV is the following:
Thank you for your consideration. Would love to keep the subscription running but without anything new, once you've seen what's there it's not really worth the continued subscription.
Thanks!
@Funka Have you tried our new http://beta.umbraco.tv yet? :-)
Hey Sebastiaan, thank you for the reply. I must say, that is a very pretty website!
However, after clicking through what's available, it looks like the same old videos from the original site (with my same frustrations regarding missing dates and versions used in the filming), as well as not finding anything that specifically addresses newest MVC functionality or anything like a crash course or something that covers what to know when "moving from version 4 to version 6."
So I'd still like to make those same suggestions in my bullet points above and hope they'll be considered. I did see the there is a nice "videos added" blurb on the new beta site's homepage, so for this I'd still love to see the dates they were added and be able to browse more than the last 3 sorted by this date.
Thanks again for your consideration.
@Funka a good tip, which I'll pass along! We're regularly adding videos, and yes they're similar material but they do show the razor way of doing things now. We're definitely planning on adding MVC videos but.. it takes time to make these videos. :-) We do very much value your input on the matter!
Comment author was deleted
@Funka the new tv site is all about v6 and MVC so it's not the same old videos :) but thanks for your tips! We'll see how we can improve so it's easier to spot outdated vids
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