first i would like to say that some of the abstract concept of umbraco is quite new and exciting, giving me alot to think about when i design a cms for a certain use
second ide like to say that your code is poor, and some of the things you take pride of, exp: 15k lines of code, are completly idiotic
ide seen some bad software written in typed and compiled langauges like c# or c++ but i had never seen a break of dev soul like in umbraco
instead of trying to manifest this sort of problem in an OOP way following the basic concepts of the object oriented paradigm, umbraco dev crew has decided to write it in a way similiar to a PHP newbe without even understand basic program structures like an INTERFACE or an ABSTRACT BASE CLASS
and while c# and every OOP language and solution has such building blocks in order to facilitate a clear separation of concerns within an application and code blocks umbraco decided to simply ignore thus foundamental decision and simply decided to integrate it's "cms" into the mvc framework provided by .NET declaring it as a DEVELOPER and PROGRAM CONSUMER tool for the development of "distributed" web components
i had some high hopes at the begging however was in total -> completly disappointed
i also like to add that from the get go i encourage my boss not to use this tool as it seams to be written by a few kids, or as i like to call them - them boyz, which was not bad and i always tend to encourage community software developement however - this is not the case since you claim a price for your documentation - which is poor, and for basic concept of support, like umbraco.tv -which, by the way, is also poor since the basic concept of umbraco is developer oriented - do you really think dev guys like to watch movies that waste their time ? show code.
while you, the end developer, may not see too many posts declaring umbraco is an extremly bad tool with poor design and that is quite impossible to maintain in the long term i personally beleive it is simply because non of thus developers took the time to write such a comment.
i strongly suggest that people who does not know how to code should try to simply avoid it - or atleast not wrap it up in such a manner that it will seem productive and positive for an ongoing developement effort
surely, if you had taken some time to try and understand some of the poor reviews you had been given and not just summarize them with a sentence like - umbraco has a steep learning curve, this product might had been worth something - but at the current stage of it; for me its something less then a POC
congrats and thank you for making me a bit dumber going throguh your docs, after all ignorance is bliss.
I once tried to write a CMS myself. And after three years of programming, adhering SOC priciples, trying to build something extensible, I found out the existance about Umbraco. They had all functionality I was building, and even more.
You are right Umbraco is not always heaven on earth. I have cursed a lot of times (out loud) on Umbraco and the poor quality of code they producded in the past. Luckily there are some marvelous people on the forum helping out anyone with a real problem.
That being said, if you look at newly developed code from the past year, the boyz are finally heading in the right direction. The boyz (like Shannon and Stephan) have very good knowledge of building software "the right way". In the last year the number of providers (interfaces, base classes, Ioc, ...) where you can extend umbraco with custom code has been steadily increasing. A nice example is the Request pipeline which is completely pluggable with more providers than you can imagine.
Talking about the request pipeline: you are right again. Umbraco documentation is not the best documentation on the planet. The documentation written by the community (including me) can be better, more comprehensive, with more and better examples. If you feel that any part of the documentation is completely absent, please do tell us so. I'll be glad to make some time. Or you can submit a pull request yourself to the documentation project (https://github.com/umbraco/Umbraco4Docs).
It's easy to say something is bad. It's not so easy to say what can be better. I really hope you can help us out by pinpointing some concrete issues. Because real issues can be solved.
Stefan, I really believe this poor guy needs some help. If you have such bad experience with umbraco, there must be something wrong. After all, kindness is in our veins. ;-)
People are entitled to their opinions but if you don't like it don't use it, but no point in being de-constructive with your comments. It has served a lot of people including myself very well, and has not let me down in all my years of implementing sites using it.
Hey OP, i have some time if you want to go over some of your problems. I have used Umbraco off and on for years and although i had issues I have grown to love it. Happy to help, drop me a line.
Just noticed you have only one post on this forum, if you had posted some actual questions requesting help I could take you seriously. As Damiaan pointed out kindness is in our veins. Not too long ago i started working with episerver and felt the same frustrations as an Umbraco newbie but slowly started to get my head round it once I attended training course read some documentation and asked for help on their forums. Everything has a learning curve CMS / language hell even a sport.
Anyhow you are entitled to your opinion just as you are entitled to use or not to use Umbraco good luck with whatever you end up using no doubt you will find something to troll on their forums!!!
umbraco 7 not good - i dont know wt* is going on
to umbraco dev hey
first i would like to say that some of the abstract concept of umbraco is quite new and exciting, giving me alot to think about when i design a cms for a certain use
second ide like to say that your code is poor, and some of the things you take pride of, exp: 15k lines of code, are completly idiotic
ide seen some bad software written in typed and compiled langauges like c# or c++ but i had never seen a break of dev soul like in umbraco
instead of trying to manifest this sort of problem in an OOP way following the basic concepts of the object oriented paradigm, umbraco dev crew has decided to write it in a way similiar to a PHP newbe without even understand basic program structures like an INTERFACE or an ABSTRACT BASE CLASS
and while c# and every OOP language and solution has such building blocks in order to facilitate a clear separation of concerns within an application and code blocks
umbraco decided to simply ignore thus foundamental decision and simply decided to integrate it's "cms" into the mvc framework provided by .NET
declaring it as a DEVELOPER and PROGRAM CONSUMER tool for the development of "distributed" web components
i had some high hopes at the begging however was in total -> completly disappointed
i also like to add that from the get go i encourage my boss not to use this tool as it seams to be written by a few kids, or as i like to call them - them boyz,
which was not bad and i always tend to encourage community software developement however - this is not the case since you claim a price for your documentation - which is poor, and for basic concept of support, like umbraco.tv -which, by the way, is also poor
since the basic concept of umbraco is developer oriented - do you really think dev guys like to watch movies that waste their time ? show code.
while you, the end developer, may not see too many posts declaring umbraco is an extremly bad tool with poor design and that is quite impossible to maintain in the long term
i personally beleive it is simply because non of thus developers took the time to write such a comment.
i strongly suggest that people who does not know how to code should try to simply avoid it - or atleast not wrap it up in such a manner that it will seem productive and positive for an ongoing developement effort
surely, if you had taken some time to try and understand some of the poor reviews you had been given and not just summarize them with a sentence like - umbraco has a steep learning curve, this product might had been worth something - but at the current stage of it; for me its something less then a POC
congrats and thank you for making me a bit dumber going throguh your docs, after all ignorance is bliss.
Hi Stamas,
I once tried to write a CMS myself. And after three years of programming, adhering SOC priciples, trying to build something extensible, I found out the existance about Umbraco. They had all functionality I was building, and even more.
You are right Umbraco is not always heaven on earth. I have cursed a lot of times (out loud) on Umbraco and the poor quality of code they producded in the past. Luckily there are some marvelous people on the forum helping out anyone with a real problem.
That being said, if you look at newly developed code from the past year, the boyz are finally heading in the right direction. The boyz (like Shannon and Stephan) have very good knowledge of building software "the right way". In the last year the number of providers (interfaces, base classes, Ioc, ...) where you can extend umbraco with custom code has been steadily increasing. A nice example is the Request pipeline which is completely pluggable with more providers than you can imagine.
Talking about the request pipeline: you are right again. Umbraco documentation is not the best documentation on the planet. The documentation written by the community (including me) can be better, more comprehensive, with more and better examples. If you feel that any part of the documentation is completely absent, please do tell us so. I'll be glad to make some time. Or you can submit a pull request yourself to the documentation project (https://github.com/umbraco/Umbraco4Docs).
It's easy to say something is bad. It's not so easy to say what can be better. I really hope you can help us out by pinpointing some concrete issues. Because real issues can be solved.
Kind regards
Damiaan
Lol, why would you comment on this pathetic topic anyways? :p
Stefan, I really believe this poor guy needs some help. If you have such bad experience with umbraco, there must be something wrong. After all, kindness is in our veins. ;-)
Hugz.
People are entitled to their opinions but if you don't like it don't use it, but no point in being de-constructive with your comments. It has served a lot of people including myself very well, and has not let me down in all my years of implementing sites using it.
Hey OP, i have some time if you want to go over some of your problems. I have used Umbraco off and on for years and although i had issues I have grown to love it. Happy to help, drop me a line.
Stamas,
Just noticed you have only one post on this forum, if you had posted some actual questions requesting help I could take you seriously. As Damiaan pointed out kindness is in our veins. Not too long ago i started working with episerver and felt the same frustrations as an Umbraco newbie but slowly started to get my head round it once I attended training course read some documentation and asked for help on their forums. Everything has a learning curve CMS / language hell even a sport.
Anyhow you are entitled to your opinion just as you are entitled to use or not to use Umbraco good luck with whatever you end up using no doubt you will find something to troll on their forums!!!
Ismail
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