Hello Umbraco
community! I'm new to the world of Umbraco CMS and this is my first
post....
I'm trying to understand the difference between
the two downloads of Umbraco (currently v7.1.2.)I’d appreciate anyone who can
tell me why I would want one over the other.Thanks!
As far as I know, Umbraco is downloaded as a zip file
called UmbracoCms.7.1.2.zip, and the other is downloaded directly into an
empty Visual Studio project via NuGet. I am using VS Express 2013
Web and have the latest ASP.NET 4.5 and dependencies, etc. I also have
the latest WebMatrix 3. I can also install Umbraco with Microsoft Web
Platform Installer.
To get oriented with Umbraco, I am not adding anything
to the project - just out of the box software. So far, I can run
Umbraco locally on my PC by unzipping UmbracoCms.7.1.2.zip into a folder.
I can run it with WebMatrix or Visual Studio. Visual Studio has to open it as a
website and not as a project. I can deploy/publish Umbraco to WinHost and
it runs on the web. Also can publish with Visual Studio.So far, so good.
Now I come to the problem, which is with Visual Studio
and Umbraco downloaded from NuGet. I can run Umbraco from Visual Studio in a
browser locally on my PC, but when I publish it to the web hosting site, it
fails. (I have trust level = Full.) The problem is that the default
SQL CE database file does not get uploaded - nor does a number of other files.
Through a lot of reading, I learned to show hidden
files in Visual Studio and include the ones I need.Another option is to set VS to
include all files in the project or project folder from the properties window.No
matter which option I chose, it would just cause another error before it even
was able to upload the SQL CE file, which is named Umbraco.sdf.
However, if I publish the same project with WebMatrix
it works!I mean this is the same Umbraco project
that VS got via NuGet.This leads me to question what Visual
Studio is doing behind the scenes during a publish session.I have already tried including
every file in the project without success. I have read many walkthroughs and
spent nearly a week trying to find a solution.
Before
I deploy/publish the Umbraco project, I first run the site once to set up my admin name and password and let it put
together the remaining files. I do nothing else, but build the
project.
Should be no functional difference between the zip and nugget. Umbraco installed via webmatrix or nugget will sort out dependencies for you, once that's been done you can install manually w/zip if you want.
If you search for 'where does umbraco store the data', you'll find some interesting clues to how it works. also maybe start poking around in here for some interesting bits on configuration topics and here, especially near the bottom about nodes, docs and publishing for some more insight on how the data is handled. Just found them myself, wish I'd read them a long time ago.
My understanding of this so far is, the database stores the raw data, but the content is also cached in xml in the app folders, which improves performance and sometimes confounds reality. Remember, republish is your friend, as well as clearing the cache. There are also the bits you create/store elsewhere, assets, images, etc. And the media is stored in its own folder by Umbraco.
This is the reason people get such varying results when publishing: the 'data' exists in many places and different publishing methods may handle them differently. Automation of publishing chores can be a blessing or a curse. Hosting provider differences don't make it any easier.
I think the difference between what WM and VS do for publishing just has to do with the intended user: WM is for entry level where an assumption might be that the user wants more things to be done for them and has less understanding of the inner workings; and VS assumes you are working under the hood and know what you're doing (or interested in making a profession of it), so of course you'll want to do it your own way. If you step out of the cozy confines of WM, you get much more than just intellisense in the bargain.
Currently I'm trying to sort out how to maintain a long term dev environment, which has me thinking the easiest way is to just whack the db each cycle and restore up or down from full backup, especially if there's been any structural changes. Otherwise, updates don't seem to work out so well, especially if you're not a db scripting wiz. I haven't found an expert confirmation of that but that's the way it appears at this point.
Hope that helps some. Maybe someone smart will chime in and correct my mistakes/misconceptions.
Thanks Matthew. What I like to do before doing anything fancy is to test the default website that Umbraco provides. That way, I have a known starting point which works, then I can customize from there. What I am trying to do is make sure some basic infrastructure on my computer works with out-of-the-box software straight from Umbraco.If I can’t get this to work, then there is no use moving forward until it is sorted out.
So, the simple plan is to…
Import Umbraco 7.1.2 CMS into an empty Visual Studio Express 2013 Web project using NuGet.
Build & Run Umbraco from Visual Studio in order to enter my admin name and password.
Choose to use SQL CE database from the Umbraco setup screen.
Edit web.config and add trust level Full.
Import my publish settings from WinHost.
Publish Umbraco to my hosting service (WinHost.)
This, of course, fails to upload the SQL CE file (Umbraco.sdf) and a number of other files.
Question:What do I have to do for Visual Studio 2013 to publish the default Umbraco site?
Well, the first thing I'd suggest is to install SQL Express on your machine and start from there. Get SQL Management Studio to make it easier. CE is recommended for playing around in house and proofing concepts but not so much for production, so publishing it would be sort of a waste of time, unless you're only going to have a very small, very simple site.
Once you have that going, you can use the SQL Migration Wizard to push your db up to your host.
The bad news is, there is a learning curve to providing Umbraco websites. They're easy for the editors to use and can be relatively easy for the developers but there is no cohesive documentation, it's mostly there but it's scattered around, so you have to be interested in committing to it, it's not Wix. But the benefit is, you can do anything you want with it, as long as you know how. Sort of like, here's a well equipped machine shop and a pile of steel, now you can have any car you want.... So, not as easy as we'd like but then, it won't look like a cheesy WordPress site when you're done either.
What's the difference between UmbracoCms.7.1.2.zip and NuGet 7.1.2 and Why doesn't VS2013 publish Umbraco.sdf to my hosting site?
Hello Umbraco community! I'm new to the world of Umbraco CMS and this is my first post....
I'm trying to understand the difference between the two downloads of Umbraco (currently v7.1.2.) I’d appreciate anyone who can tell me why I would want one over the other. Thanks!
As far as I know, Umbraco is downloaded as a zip file called UmbracoCms.7.1.2.zip, and the other is downloaded directly into an empty Visual Studio project via NuGet. I am using VS Express 2013 Web and have the latest ASP.NET 4.5 and dependencies, etc. I also have the latest WebMatrix 3. I can also install Umbraco with Microsoft Web Platform Installer.
To get oriented with Umbraco, I am not adding anything to the project - just out of the box software. So far, I can run Umbraco locally on my PC by unzipping UmbracoCms.7.1.2.zip into a folder. I can run it with WebMatrix or Visual Studio. Visual Studio has to open it as a website and not as a project. I can deploy/publish Umbraco to WinHost and it runs on the web. Also can publish with Visual Studio. So far, so good.
Now I come to the problem, which is with Visual Studio and Umbraco downloaded from NuGet. I can run Umbraco from Visual Studio in a browser locally on my PC, but when I publish it to the web hosting site, it fails. (I have trust level = Full.) The problem is that the default SQL CE database file does not get uploaded - nor does a number of other files.
Through a lot of reading, I learned to show hidden files in Visual Studio and include the ones I need. Another option is to set VS to include all files in the project or project folder from the properties window. No matter which option I chose, it would just cause another error before it even was able to upload the SQL CE file, which is named Umbraco.sdf.
However, if I publish the same project with WebMatrix it works! I mean this is the same Umbraco project that VS got via NuGet. This leads me to question what Visual Studio is doing behind the scenes during a publish session. I have already tried including every file in the project without success. I have read many walkthroughs and spent nearly a week trying to find a solution.
Before I deploy/publish the Umbraco project, I first run the site once to set up my admin name and password and let it put together the remaining files. I do nothing else, but build the project.
I hope someone can help me out! Many thanks.
Dave
Disclaimer: not an expert.
Should be no functional difference between the zip and nugget. Umbraco installed via webmatrix or nugget will sort out dependencies for you, once that's been done you can install manually w/zip if you want.
If you search for 'where does umbraco store the data', you'll find some interesting clues to how it works. also maybe start poking around in here for some interesting bits on configuration topics and here, especially near the bottom about nodes, docs and publishing for some more insight on how the data is handled. Just found them myself, wish I'd read them a long time ago.
My understanding of this so far is, the database stores the raw data, but the content is also cached in xml in the app folders, which improves performance and sometimes confounds reality. Remember, republish is your friend, as well as clearing the cache. There are also the bits you create/store elsewhere, assets, images, etc. And the media is stored in its own folder by Umbraco.
This is the reason people get such varying results when publishing: the 'data' exists in many places and different publishing methods may handle them differently. Automation of publishing chores can be a blessing or a curse. Hosting provider differences don't make it any easier.
I think the difference between what WM and VS do for publishing just has to do with the intended user: WM is for entry level where an assumption might be that the user wants more things to be done for them and has less understanding of the inner workings; and VS assumes you are working under the hood and know what you're doing (or interested in making a profession of it), so of course you'll want to do it your own way. If you step out of the cozy confines of WM, you get much more than just intellisense in the bargain.
Currently I'm trying to sort out how to maintain a long term dev environment, which has me thinking the easiest way is to just whack the db each cycle and restore up or down from full backup, especially if there's been any structural changes. Otherwise, updates don't seem to work out so well, especially if you're not a db scripting wiz. I haven't found an expert confirmation of that but that's the way it appears at this point.
Hope that helps some. Maybe someone smart will chime in and correct my mistakes/misconceptions.
Thanks Matthew. What I like to do before doing anything fancy is to test the default website that Umbraco provides. That way, I have a known starting point which works, then I can customize from there. What I am trying to do is make sure some basic infrastructure on my computer works with out-of-the-box software straight from Umbraco. If I can’t get this to work, then there is no use moving forward until it is sorted out.
So, the simple plan is to…
Import Umbraco 7.1.2 CMS into an empty Visual Studio Express 2013 Web project using NuGet.
Build & Run Umbraco from Visual Studio in order to enter my admin name and password.
Choose to use SQL CE database from the Umbraco setup screen.
Edit web.config and add trust level Full.
Import my publish settings from WinHost.
Publish Umbraco to my hosting service (WinHost.)
This, of course, fails to upload the SQL CE file (Umbraco.sdf) and a number of other files.
Question: What do I have to do for Visual Studio 2013 to publish the default Umbraco site?
Thanks.
Dave
Well, the first thing I'd suggest is to install SQL Express on your machine and start from there. Get SQL Management Studio to make it easier. CE is recommended for playing around in house and proofing concepts but not so much for production, so publishing it would be sort of a waste of time, unless you're only going to have a very small, very simple site.
Once you have that going, you can use the SQL Migration Wizard to push your db up to your host.
The bad news is, there is a learning curve to providing Umbraco websites. They're easy for the editors to use and can be relatively easy for the developers but there is no cohesive documentation, it's mostly there but it's scattered around, so you have to be interested in committing to it, it's not Wix. But the benefit is, you can do anything you want with it, as long as you know how. Sort of like, here's a well equipped machine shop and a pile of steel, now you can have any car you want.... So, not as easy as we'd like but then, it won't look like a cheesy WordPress site when you're done either.
Might take a look at this CE export package as well. It also mentions the CE toolbox for VS.
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