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  • Nico Viergever 20 posts 81 karma points
    May 17, 2015 @ 23:38
    Nico Viergever
    0

    New to Umbraco - questioning quality

    I am new to Umbraco and I was very curious about it. But both the installation and the first usage caused a lot of confusion, frustration and both logical and technical errors. I needed several installs before I got it working.

    Now I am finding my way and I decided to try out a few starting kits and other extensions. So far every single one of them ran straight into an error.

    After these experiences I have serious doubts about the quality of Umbraco. Is there any guarantee of quality assurance? Is this even an issue?

    Right now I have doubts if Umbraco is the right way forward for me.

  • Jan Skovgaard 11264 posts 23592 karma points MVP 9x admin c-trib
    May 18, 2015 @ 05:41
    Jan Skovgaard
    0

    Hi Nico and welcome to our :)

    I'm sorry to hear about the issues you have experienced installing it and testing it.

    But it would help to know what version of Umbraco you are trying to use and what packages you have been installing and if there are some more detailed error messages / screendumps of the issues you're facing.

    Since there are active Umbraco versions from 4.x to 7.2.x out in the wild there are packages available that are not compatible with 4.x as well as there are packages not compatible with 7.x etc. - But this also makes it easy to make the mistake of forgetting to check compatibility and install an incompatible version of a package to a wrong version of Umbraco.

    And unfortunately sometimes the 3rd party package, which are in most cases created by members of the community, can make some weird errors for different reasons. But Umbraco HQ can't control the quality and compatibility of those packages.

    But I think it would help a lot to learn more about the issues you have experienced in order to figure out how things can be made easier and less confusing for new users since it hard to make up for a bad first impression unfortunately.

    But as you can see from the reference list of sites running Umbraco (in the slider a bit down the page) http://umbraco.com/why-umbraco#caseStudies Umbraco is quality tested and some big companies are relying on it as well.

    Looking forward to hearing from you.

    /Jan

  • Nico Viergever 20 posts 81 karma points
    May 18, 2015 @ 10:21
    Nico Viergever
    0

    Hi Jan,

     

    Thanks for the reply. About the version: I just went to the home page from Umbraco for the download. So I assume I had the latest version.

    I installed Umbraco several times and I noticed that I had a few different outcomes. Like there was a randomizer behind the process. I also noticed that there was an upgrade while I was trying things out so that may be the answer.

     

    Every time I ran into problems I could very easily find other people with similar problems. Finding answers and solutions was a different story. When my issues are far from new and answers are different to find, I find aspects of your reply a bit strange. These are not individual ussues, they seems to be fundamental and should be treated this way.

     

    As for the starting kits: I was first amazed that there is no way that any package can be directly installed. First you have to create a local package. It is strange and even frustrating that the user first has to run into errors (that I could only solve after a re-install !!) and then has to turn to Googl;e for the solution. The site should warn for this. I also wonder why Umbraco offers a direct install when this feature does not work. It should be prevented.

    Then the isseu of packages simply not working after the install. I noticed the user has to be very carefull. Is there a simple mechanism where you can find out if the package is compliant to the current version of Umbraco?

     

    Cheers,

    Nico

  • Jan Skovgaard 11264 posts 23592 karma points MVP 9x admin c-trib
    May 18, 2015 @ 21:03
    Jan Skovgaard
    0

    Hi Nico

    Ok, since I'm a seasoned user of Umbraco I was not aware of the option to signup and download Umbraco using umbraco.com, which I assume is what you mean - I take that you installed Umbraco using this page? http://umbraco.com/download - If so...did you then install using the green button (Web platform installer) or the white button (Webmatrix installer?). It should be up to date and you're probably running Umbraco 7.2.5 - You can always find out by clicking the "Help" section in the backoffice as well.

    Depending on the OS you're using and the database you have chosen to use unfortunately there can be some issues. Also if the required frameworks that Umbraco relies on are not present for some reason you'll see some errors, which of course if frustrating. Luckily there is documentation available, which should support you in the installation proces here https://our.umbraco.org/documentation/Installation/ - But I can see that the documentation is not referenced from the site. That might be an idea for Umbraco HQ to highlight on that page as well.

    It would be nice if you could be more specific about the errors you encountered during the proces since it's otherwise hard to figure out what the cause could be and bring it to the attention of the HQ, which I'm sure will try and do their best to eliminate those headaches that you and others have been having. If you could just provide some links to some of the posts you have seen where people have had the same issues as you have been facing I think that would be helpful.

    I'm not sure I get what you mean about one needing to create a local package? What packages have you been trying to install? You should not need to create a local package before installing it? Sorry if I'm being slow here but I'm feeling lost here :)

    What kind of packages have you been trying to install? As I mentioned before some packages might not be compatible with the version of Umbraco that you have been installing - So it would be nice to know, which packages you have encountered issues with. If you download the packages from the package section here on our then you can see if a package is compatible with a certain version on a chart to the right based on smileys of the author or some of those people who have tried the package have reported compatibility. Also the author ads the information further down the package page where the compatible versions are mentioned. But currently it's not ideal since this forum is outdated - But there are plans to relaunch it getting the design and UX up to date so things hopefully are improved and easier to navigate.

    From inside the package section in the Umbraco backoffice it's also possible to install packages directly and only those compatible with the installed version should be listed there if the package has got enough votes from the community from the package page on our - This is done to prevent potentiel spam packages to become available in the backoffice.

    I hope this helps a bit - And I'm looking forward to hearing from you.

    /Jan

  • Nico Viergever 20 posts 81 karma points
    May 19, 2015 @ 01:45
    Nico Viergever
    0

    Right Jan,

    I went back on my tracks. First I installed straight from the home page. Later I installed from the page you refrenced (I think) but also straight in Webmatrix Web Gallery. They seems to install slightly different versions.

    I tried to install packages but ran into errors as described also here: https://our.umbraco.org/forum/getting-started/installing-umbraco/59593-Installing-packages-at-72-Error-Invalid-host-name (had to create a local package). So I don't see what the direct install function does.

    Then I also tried to some starter kits and ran straight into compatibilty errors with Umbraco not running anymore at all. I expected downwards compatibilty but that did not work for e.g. uBootstrap and CWS.

     

    On the Upside: I received this tweet:

    Nik Wahlberg @nwahlberg

    @NicoViergever a great place to start is here: our.umbraco.org/documentation/…. Also feel free to post q's in the forum. Lots of help. // @umbraco

     

    This was just what I needed as the link gives me a good insight in Umbraco, even when some of the instructions are a touch outdated. E.g. it does not seem possible anymore to download an Umbraco installation without the standard Starterkit. But are insignificant details. The pages show me what to do and the structure of Umbraco. It also relates to my basic .Net knowledge so I can translate my MS Expression Web experience to this CMS.

    A fine piece of work!

     

    So I am currently enjoying myself, even when I get into trouble forgetting to push the Save button. But slowly, creating a lot of restore points, I feel I might be getting somewhere. Not bad for a guy that stopped being a professional IT guy 20 years ago.

  • Jan Skovgaard 11264 posts 23592 karma points MVP 9x admin c-trib
    May 19, 2015 @ 06:36
    Jan Skovgaard
    0

    Hi Nico

    Yeah I should have posted that link to the documentation in my initial post too actually but good that Nik posted it on Twitter. It's actually a piece of work made by the community around Umbraco :) - A couple of other ressources that are worth reading are http://www.24days.in/umbraco - It takes you to the 2014 th version but you can see the other years by going to http://www.24days.in/umbraco/2012 for instance - 2012 was when the project started - And also make sure to checkout the newly launched http://www.skrift.io

    If you would like you can also sign up for http://umbraco.tv, which has a lot of videos to get you started. Specifically for v7 here http://umbraco.tv/videos/umbraco-v7/ - But be aware that it's 19€ a month though.

    uBootstrap and CWS are not compatible with later versions of Umbraco and if they have been available through the backoffice in Umbraco that's a bug unfortunately. If you find things that are bugs you can report them at http://issues.umbraco.org/issues - And here you can of course also see if something is already a known bug.

    It actually is possible to start out on a blank Umbraco without a starter kit but it's easy to overlook by the way the installer is designed - But right to the big green "Install" button there is a "Customize" button, which allows you to not choose a starter kit and setup a DB connection to something other than the embedded CE SQL database.

    I'm happy to hear that you're now enjoying yourself and hope you'll keep enjoying the adventure :)

    Cheers, Jan

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