Unfortunately our suffers from some hiccups and that's of course not ideal. But the best advice I can give for now is to just make a new post in the thread instead of trying to edit the initial post.
You're right - it certainly isn't 'ideal'. It gives me no confidence in the Umbraco team to provide a CMS free of rudimentary bugs, when so many are evident in its own forum. A forum is, after all, pretty simple stuff. It's a real disappointment because Umbraco is in many ways amazing. I strongly suspect this is not the fault of the Umbraco team but of the platform upon which Umbraco sits. Any system based on IIS / .NET will be unreliable, it's so poorly designed (more to keep people out than in, 'barriers to entry' I think they call it). Umbraco's still the best .NET CMS around though, just a shame that isn't saying much.
I think that Heinz, Microsoft (http://asp.net and many other sites), Wired, Fox, Vogue, Take That, etc. will all agree: Umbraco is very reliable for them.
To the best of my knowledge, there's 2 known bugs on Our: 1. Can't edit opening post, 2. Sometimes you'll get an XSLT error for a minute. The second one is a bit harder to diagnose, the first one is just a matter of low priority.
These are bugs in the custom written forum software, not in Umbraco itself.
> To the best of my knowledge, there's 2 known bugs You've not been listening or testing. In the short time I've used this forum I've isolated eight:
New posts get lost (they do not get posted on submit, and the user is returned to the 'new post' page)
The RTE shows tiny text at random (IE9)
The RTE often cannot gain focus on mouse click, and can only be reached by tabbing from the post title (IE9, iPad)
Posts often cannot be edited - edits are not recorded (IE9, iPad)
Posts often cannot be replied to - replies are not recorded (IE9, iPad)
Regular XSLT parsing errors
Cannot search for c# in search form
RTE lists only work occasionally (IE9)
> These are bugs in the custom written forum software, not in Umbraco itself. The RTE bugs are in TinyMCE, but rather than saying 'it's not our fault' you should perhaps source an RTE that isn't full of bugs (the Wordpress RTE is better) which might also fix the data entry problems in the Umbraco admin (macros that aren't inserted correctly, buttons that only appear on resize etc.). The large number of posts-not-sent errors makes the forum an ass to use, and reflects very badly on Umbraco. The inability to search for anything with c# in it is also frustrating. It makes searching for information about one of the core languages impossible. I appreciate you're only trying to defend Umbraco, but this forum is full of bugs that make it very difficult to use and that reflect very badly on Umbraco. And in the absence of any decent documentation some effort should be put in to fixing it. A good response would have been to let me know where to report these bugs so they will be addressed.
You have come to the right place to report bugs! :-) And thank you for that extensive list, that's valueable information.
A thing to note is that the RTE implementation was done before IE9 and an iPad existed. That's not an excuse, but sometimes you can only do so much to keep up (I know, I know, IE9 has been out for xx months now..).
The RTE is a little different on the frontend than it is in the backend (that version is better tested and has more fixes for IE9).
There is currently no good iPad support for the forum, a known issue that the Umbraco HQ also wants to fix, but can't find the time for at the moment. There is a mobile version of the site, (which, admittedly, is not ideal either): http://our.umbraco.org/mobile
It seems like most of your frustrations at the moment can be aleviated by switching to a browser like Chrome or Firefox. Remember: this forum is mostly for Umbraco devs, not for end-users. Again, it's inexcusable that it doesn't work well in IE9, but that's a tradeoff that has been made. The forum is a tool, rather than a showcase of how perfectly Umbraco can work.
That said, I've alerted the people working on the forum to have a look and hopefully, if time permits, the worst problems can be solved rather quickly.
And although I understand that for newcomers it might not look favorable for Umbraco: the problems you're seeing on the forum are LARGELY due to problems in the forum software, not due to problems in the Umbraco core.
Sebastiaan just notified me about this thread and all I can say is: Yikes! What a horrible experience.
We'll be looking into this ASAP. Normally we're more active around here and give Our more TLC, but the past months we've been swamped in work finishing Umbraco 5. As a growing company without external funding, it's a constant battle to prioritize resoures, but it's obvious that we need to do something here.
I'll let you all know once we've had a chance to discuss internally.
Going to 'Your topics' and clicking on the pagination links, say '2', I just get page 1s topics. Flicking back and forth between them just maintains the same list even though the URL changes with an obvious page index in the query string. Sometimes the list can just cut in half, too, though it still consists only of topics that would be in the first page.
As for Sebastiaan isolating these issues to IE9, that's simply not true, he is mistaken - I've encountered most, if not all of these mentioned bugs in Chrome since hanging around here.
This kind of stuff was expected back in the days of Microsoft as startups and later, indeed it was part of the adventure, right through to the 90s - but this day and age we have 'building block software', techniques and high-level languages and frameworks that actually make it difficult not to know that what you code isn't going to work. On that matter, it does make me concerned for the industry that such elementary-type bugs creep out of the woodwork.
As for it not being representative of Umbraco itself, I think the premature releases, breaking changes and incessant bugs in Umbraco throughout the versions are highly indicative of attitude towards programming/the software industry (which is also reflected in most of the otherwise developed packages I've encountered, 'detached' from Umbraco I know, but you get cargo-cultists going from example). I honestly hope I am wrong in my impressions, but first impressions stick. I have a lot to say on this topic, but I sincerely wouldn't want to offend anyone and I know the team in general defend Umbraco like a child of their own (whether the child is honest-to-goodness ugly or not, you'd best not say it) - that's not satisfactory customer service (remember, that's essentially what we are) - so will cut this of to leave as an overview at least and just say: it's serious business.
Tried to edit the last post but stopped by bugs
Specifically,
Error parsing XSLT file: \xslt\forum-commentsList.xslt
Error parsing XSLT file: \xslt\forum-overview.xslt
So if this post works it's a surprise.
What's wrong with this thing?
Hi Jed
Unfortunately our suffers from some hiccups and that's of course not ideal. But the best advice I can give for now is to just make a new post in the thread instead of trying to edit the initial post.
/Jan
You're right - it certainly isn't 'ideal'. It gives me no confidence in the Umbraco team to provide a CMS free of rudimentary bugs, when so many are evident in its own forum. A forum is, after all, pretty simple stuff. It's a real disappointment because Umbraco is in many ways amazing. I strongly suspect this is not the fault of the Umbraco team but of the platform upon which Umbraco sits. Any system based on IIS / .NET will be unreliable, it's so poorly designed (more to keep people out than in, 'barriers to entry' I think they call it). Umbraco's still the best .NET CMS around though, just a shame that isn't saying much.
I think that Heinz, Microsoft (http://asp.net and many other sites), Wired, Fox, Vogue, Take That, etc. will all agree: Umbraco is very reliable for them.
To the best of my knowledge, there's 2 known bugs on Our: 1. Can't edit opening post, 2. Sometimes you'll get an XSLT error for a minute. The second one is a bit harder to diagnose, the first one is just a matter of low priority.
These are bugs in the custom written forum software, not in Umbraco itself.
Hi Sebastiaan,
> To the best of my knowledge, there's 2 known bugs
You've not been listening or testing. In the short time I've used this forum I've isolated eight:
> These are bugs in the custom written forum software, not in Umbraco itself.
The RTE bugs are in TinyMCE, but rather than saying 'it's not our fault' you should perhaps source an RTE that isn't full of bugs (the Wordpress RTE is better) which might also fix the data entry problems in the Umbraco admin (macros that aren't inserted correctly, buttons that only appear on resize etc.). The large number of posts-not-sent errors makes the forum an ass to use, and reflects very badly on Umbraco. The inability to search for anything with c# in it is also frustrating. It makes searching for information about one of the core languages impossible. I appreciate you're only trying to defend Umbraco, but this forum is full of bugs that make it very difficult to use and that reflect very badly on Umbraco. And in the absence of any decent documentation some effort should be put in to fixing it. A good response would have been to let me know where to report these bugs so they will be addressed.
You have come to the right place to report bugs! :-) And thank you for that extensive list, that's valueable information.
A thing to note is that the RTE implementation was done before IE9 and an iPad existed. That's not an excuse, but sometimes you can only do so much to keep up (I know, I know, IE9 has been out for xx months now..).
The RTE is a little different on the frontend than it is in the backend (that version is better tested and has more fixes for IE9).
There is currently no good iPad support for the forum, a known issue that the Umbraco HQ also wants to fix, but can't find the time for at the moment. There is a mobile version of the site, (which, admittedly, is not ideal either): http://our.umbraco.org/mobile
It seems like most of your frustrations at the moment can be aleviated by switching to a browser like Chrome or Firefox. Remember: this forum is mostly for Umbraco devs, not for end-users. Again, it's inexcusable that it doesn't work well in IE9, but that's a tradeoff that has been made. The forum is a tool, rather than a showcase of how perfectly Umbraco can work.
That said, I've alerted the people working on the forum to have a look and hopefully, if time permits, the worst problems can be solved rather quickly.
And although I understand that for newcomers it might not look favorable for Umbraco: the problems you're seeing on the forum are LARGELY due to problems in the forum software, not due to problems in the Umbraco core.
Sebastiaan just notified me about this thread and all I can say is: Yikes! What a horrible experience.
We'll be looking into this ASAP. Normally we're more active around here and give Our more TLC, but the past months we've been swamped in work finishing Umbraco 5. As a growing company without external funding, it's a constant battle to prioritize resoures, but it's obvious that we need to do something here.
I'll let you all know once we've had a chance to discuss internally.
Cheers (and sorry!),
Niels...
Would like to point out Lee his reaction in this topic for some other good comments: http://our.umbraco.org/forum/ourumb-dev-forum/bugs/27925-This-forum-is-full-of-bugs#comment104746
Jeroen
There are still some bugs which can cause confusion: http://our.umbraco.org/forum/getting-started/installing-umbraco/30210-All-I-get-is-Start-Here-page
Jeroen
Another one to add to the list:
Going to 'Your topics' and clicking on the pagination links, say '2', I just get page 1s topics. Flicking back and forth between them just maintains the same list even though the URL changes with an obvious page index in the query string. Sometimes the list can just cut in half, too, though it still consists only of topics that would be in the first page.
As for Sebastiaan isolating these issues to IE9, that's simply not true, he is mistaken - I've encountered most, if not all of these mentioned bugs in Chrome since hanging around here.
This kind of stuff was expected back in the days of Microsoft as startups and later, indeed it was part of the adventure, right through to the 90s - but this day and age we have 'building block software', techniques and high-level languages and frameworks that actually make it difficult not to know that what you code isn't going to work. On that matter, it does make me concerned for the industry that such elementary-type bugs creep out of the woodwork.
As for it not being representative of Umbraco itself, I think the premature releases, breaking changes and incessant bugs in Umbraco throughout the versions are highly indicative of attitude towards programming/the software industry (which is also reflected in most of the otherwise developed packages I've encountered, 'detached' from Umbraco I know, but you get cargo-cultists going from example). I honestly hope I am wrong in my impressions, but first impressions stick. I have a lot to say on this topic, but I sincerely wouldn't want to offend anyone and I know the team in general defend Umbraco like a child of their own (whether the child is honest-to-goodness ugly or not, you'd best not say it) - that's not satisfactory customer service (remember, that's essentially what we are) - so will cut this of to leave as an overview at least and just say: it's serious business.
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