I have now got the Umbraco CMS 4 RC3 running thanks to members here on umbraco, Thanks!
Now I have som questions.
1. Membership
I have certain knowlege on how to use masterpages and templates to build a really simple page(one page) with umbraco. Now I need to learn how to handle members off mys site? How do I buld a registration form? How do I make it possible to login to my site? How do I control what data to show for the end user? How do I make it possible for the user to edit the contet lika add/remove/change articles, blogs, personla pages and so on with out let the user in to umbraco controlpanel?
2. Community
I have been building a foundation for a community in ASP.net 2.0 / C# but have now set this project on hold to see if umbraco can replace and thus save alof of work. So how do get a community(forum/mail)) up and running on my umbraco page? And how do I handle the users?
3. Gasp Umbraco
I do not still understand what umbraco really can do? There is no "Getting started with Umbraco" or "how to I build a simple site with members" as far as I can see? There is however documents like "Creating and Using an Action Handler" and "Introduction to Canvas" and this is probably nice but absolutly not for a beginner that do not know the grounds in Umbraco? It may be possible to do anything with umbraco but this also makes it hard to know where and how to begin to learn the system.
4. Work in Umbraco
To build pages in Umbraco you will have to type the HTML and CSS direcly in to the umbraco CMS system. This system do have some good feutures like adding snippets of code to the document(Content tags and so on), but there is no intellisense at all? Is it possible to use Visual Studio´s editor to create the pages or do I simple have to type the HTML/CSS in Visual Studio and then copy it in to the Umbraco CMS?
1/ umbraco has support for membership providers. All asp.net member controls can be used to build registration forms, login forms... No strings attached.
But be aware of the difference between members (frontend users) and users (backend users). If you wish to allow members to add/remove/change content, you'll need to build that stuff yourself. If you wish to allow users to add/remove/change content, then they either access the admin backend or set up some content channels so users may still use familiar tools such as word or livewriter.
2/ Looks like a nice project. I'm confident that umbraco can do lots of work for you. And users (I guess you mean members...) can be easily handled using the built-in membership provider support.
3/ Spot on. But, people are working hard to get some good documentation up and running. Check the umbraco.org site frequently for announcements.
4/ you don't need to. Just use your favorite tools such as vs.net to edit those files. If those files are in the corresponding directory, it will be picked up by umbraco (It does for masterpages, css, script files, ...)
[quote=Dirk]Hi snowman,
1/ umbraco has support for membership providers. All asp.net member controls can be used to build registration forms, login forms... No strings attached.
But be aware of the difference between members (frontend users) and users (backend users). If you wish to allow members to add/remove/change content, you'll need to build that stuff yourself. If you wish to allow users to add/remove/change content, then they either access the admin backend or set up some content channels so users may still use familiar tools such as word or livewriter.
[/quote]
So all I have to do is to add the syntax(HTML tags) för the membership controls like CreateUserWizard(
Say that I am about to build a comunity site, this site will need the following standard things.
Article section
- Members may write articles for the site (add, change)
- Super member may handle these articles (change, remove)
Forum
- Members may post threads in the forums and posts in the threads (add, change, remove)
- Super member may administrate the forum, threads and post (change, remove)
- Administraters may build the forum structure
Mail
- Super member may send out news to the members
General
- Count link hits
- Show member status where ever a link the the users exists
- Personal page
and so on, and so on....
The super user is really a simple user with higher rights, this means that this user should not have to use a special administrator page, but instead be able to change the contet right in the front end. It is possibly that the administrators will be willing to enter a special administrator page to edit the structure of the forum.
If I understand you I will have to do the hard part and buld all this my self? Umbraco is only handling what pages goes on to the site and where the usercontrols are to be placeded(HTML/CSS) on these pages?
Or have I misunderstand somthing here?
[quote=Dirk]
3/ Spot on. But, people are working hard to get some good documentation up and running. Check the umbraco.org site frequently for announcements.
[/quote]
To bad, this means that it will take alot longer to understand the system and to see if it is fit for the purpose.
[quote=tim]@snowman for getting started I can highly recommend to check out umbraco.tv (http://www.umbraco.org/videos)[/quote]
Thanks! But I have looked there and I can´t see any "getting started..". It appears that the videos also cost money, this would not be any problem If I did know that this was a system that I will work with. The absolut basics should be free and easy accesssed so I could decide fast if this is a system for me or not.
After 1 week of work with umbraco It simes like Umbraco only provides two things ; It makes it easy to build your site structure(what pages that goes on to the site) and a simple editor for coding HTML/CSS. It is even possible to use ASP.NET syntax like master pages and so on directly in umbraco control panel. This makes Umbrac a grate solution for one that do not want to learn/code ASP.NET/C#/VB.NET.
I also see umbraco as a grate and fast way to build simple sites that do not demand any special functionality like forums, members and so on.
I however do not see how the umbraco can help a developer that knows its way around ASP.NET/C#/VB.NET when it comes to building more advance site like a community's.
Yes umbraco can handle alot, there is nothing that umbraco can´t do(as it are said) and this might be true but this is be course its demands to use ASP.NET/C#/VB.NET to accomplish more advance stuff and this is not made from within umbraco. I would personally see it the other way around, umbraco are more a add on to ASP.NET to handle the structure of the pages just like the membership makes it possible to handle members.
If there was more packages for umbraco like forum and so on then I would absolutely consider umbraco for a simple community site.
Indeed, you may use any of the asp.net login controls and you don't have to change anything, unless you need extra business logic to execute... (For example, you'd like to add the member to a member group after registration)
[quote]Article section
- Members may write articles for the site (add, change)
- Super member may handle these articles (change, remove)[/quote]
Either use Doc2Form or your own user control to build the form (If using the latter, you'll need some extra logic fired to get the article published - Doc2Form takes care of that as well.
[quote]Forum
- Members may post threads in the forums and posts in the threads (add, change, remove)
- Super member may administrate the forum, threads and post (change, remove)
- Administraters may build the forum structure[/quote]
Looks quite similar to the articles logic.
[quote]Mail
- Super member may send out news to the members[/quote]
[quote]General
- Count link hits
- Show member status where ever a link the the users exists
- Personal page[/quote]
Count link hits -> Just add a simpe user control to the master page that takes care of counting the hits.
Show member status -> put a asp:LoginStatus control on the masterpage or wherever required.
Personal page -> could be created on member signup, be protected so only that member can access that page... depends on the requirements...
[quote]If I understand you I will have to do the hard part and buld all this my self? Umbraco is only handling what pages goes on to the site and where the usercontrols are to be placeded(HTML/CSS) on these pages?[/quote]
I've yet to see a cms system that does all the plumbing for you.... Anyway, umbraco is best at managing content, as it is a cms system. But is oh so flexible you could do almost anything... You're only limited by your imagination...
That last part might be a bit overexagarated, but I guess you get the point.
[quote]
To bad, this means that it will take alot longer to understand the system and to see if it is fit for the purpose.[/quote]
Our umbraco forum and members are always willing to help you out on any problem or question. So please keep asking questions and we'll get you up to speed with umbraco in no time.
[quote]Either use Doc2Form or your own user control to build the form (If using the latter, you'll need some extra logic fired to get the article published - Doc2Form takes care of that as well.
[/quote]
I have not looked at the Doc2Form module but I supose that it makes it easy to publish text to the site from within the Admin controlpanel? Or do it also make it possible to add articles direcly from the page(front end)? I do not really think that a simple member want to go in to the controlpanel to add a form, this is something that they want to do directly in the page.
And is it possible to add comments and so on?
I was in believe that is was not possible to change the content from the front end without doing some development my self?
[quote]Looks quite similar to the articles logic. [/quote]
Do you mean that the Doc2Form can be used as a forum(like this forum)?
[quote]I've yet to see a cms system that does all the plumbing for you.... Anyway, umbraco is best at managing content, as it is a cms system. But is oh so flexible you could do almost anything... You're only limited by your imagination...
That last part might be a bit overexagarated, but I guess you get the point.[/quote]
As I see it umbraco do not really contain that much today, If we look at the DotNetNuke you can see that it have the possibility to handle users, mail, blog, articles and forums out of the box, no coding is needed at all besides the markup.
But again how do you mean with flexible? Out of the box there is not really much you can do with umbraco without coding yourself, yes you can publish text on the site in different formation from the administrator controlpanel but what else? And If I have to code the forum and all the other things my self then the question is why I should use umbraco when the hard work are done in Visual Studio anyway? What do umbraco provide that is not easy to setup in a webproject in visual studio? Yes It do got a grate project structure and one could probably learn much from the source foundation.
I maby sound negative, but thats not my intensions, I do absolutly believe that the umbraco are grate but Im not to sure that it is that grate for a developer that already know its way around websites with Visual Studio? I do not simple see the benefits?
[quote]I have not looked at the Doc2Form module but I supose that it makes it easy to publish text to the site from within the Admin controlpanel? Or do it also make it possible to add articles direcly from the page(front end)? I do not really think that a simple member want to go in to the controlpanel to add a form, this is something that they want to do directly in the page.[/quote]
Doc2Form allows people to create input forms without the need of developing it. One of its params is taking the id of a document type, and the form will be built based on the doc type's properties (For example, if the article doc type has a title (textstring), header (textstring) and body (rte), then Doc2Form will transform those properties into standard asp.net controls)
It can be used for any documen type, so yes, even articles and article comments could be built that way. Doc2Form is one option, you could of course easily build a custom user control and handle the publishing yourself. Flexibilty right...?
[quote]Do you mean that the Doc2Form can be used as a forum(like this forum)?[/quote]
Not exactly, Doc2Form just allows for easy form building using standard asp.net controls (Btw, I haven't tried it in v4, it has been created long before v4 was ever pronounced).
[quote]As I see it umbraco do not really contain that much today, If we look at the DotNetNuke you can see that it have the possibility to handle users, mail, blog, articles and forums out of the box, no coding is needed at all besides the markup.[/quote]
Hmm, umbraco has been around since 2001 and has been under serious development for the last 2 years... Great to hear about those wonderful modules DNN is offering, great to know it supports those things out-of-the-box, still, you're bound to what users are offering, and can't change things unless you do the coding yourself... I'm not going to discuss DNN vs umbraco, but have seen many posts in this forum of people who've turned from DNN to umbraco and never looked back. Have to hear about the first one that did the opposite... (well, probably, we won't hear 'm complaining here...)
No, seriously, I don't want to make DNN look stupid, it just doesn't fit my needs (as a developer...) and it's too bloated.
[quote]I maby sound negative, but thats not my intensions, I do absolutly believe that the umbraco are grate but Im not to sure that it is that grate for a developer that already know its way around websites with Visual Studio? I do not simple see the benefits?[/quote]
No problem at all, the feedback is much appreciated... I've seen people building complete webshops using umbraco without even touching vs.net! And we just can't ignore the vast number of websites (big and small) running umbraco...
I'm hoping you'll be exploring umbraco even more to see if it might be the right choice for you... Let us know what you decide
I have now made my own usercontrol and manage to import it to my umbraco page and it was as easy as adding it to any other site.
I do however still not see why I should use umbraco instead of building the site my self? Yes Umbraco is a CMS system that should make it easy to change the content. But say that I build a site about boardgames where I will import information about the boardgames from a webservice, where do I store the data? and will I have to build the tool my self that edit the information(maby I want to change the text for the boardgame monopoly).
The questions are many but the information are thin.
I do want to learn more about how umbraco works, like how to get membership going and how to pass data from one usercontrol to another. The problem is that there is simple no information how this works and its vary time consuming to searth this forum.
If the information was easy accessed then the time it takes to learn the umbraco system should reduce multitudely.
The same questions like "how to use membership" and "how to get started" should repeat it self over and over? why not create simple torturials to make it alot easier for both you(veterans) and us (beginners), It should not have to be that hard work sines the system are stated to be vary easy.
[quote]I have now made my own usercontrol and manage to import it to my umbraco page and it was as easy as adding it to any other site.[/quote]
Great! I told you it wasn't that difficult...
[quote]I do however still not see why I should use umbraco instead of building the site my self? Yes Umbraco is a CMS system that should make it easy to change the content. But say that I build a site about boardgames where I will import information about the boardgames from a webservice, where do I store the data? and will I have to build the tool my self that edit the information(maby I want to change the text for the boardgame monopoly).[/quote]
Ok, let me ask some more questions then... How will you store the data? As rows in a database table, right? And how will you administer that data? From an admin site, right? And why do you need to import data from a webservice? Is that from an external source?
And now... let me explain how umbraco will handle this...
As you need to define how the data looks like (the actual rows in your db, remember), you'll need document types. Probably the most important building block! All data has a structure and it needs to be defined! Document types is what you need. Add as many 'properties' as required. Can be text (single/multiline), integers, images, you name it, most of the basics are supported. Have data defined. Cool, start creating data based on that document types. All data goes into the content section of umbraco. Have all data available. Cool, just one step and you've got the info on the web. Declare some templates (will define the look and feel of content) and you're set. Ok, it may look as I'm simplifying things too much, but it's all there is. No caveats whatsoever.
Oh, I read your mind, quite easy to set up such things in classic asp.net? Sure that is, but let me take a very common use case of some people that are allowed to change the data while others may not. Hmm, I'm sure you can do this in classic asp.net, it will take me about 2 minutes to implement that feature! How about the classis asp.net approach?
Or the DNN approach it you wish?
Btw, there's free content available on http://umbraco.tv/ as well, that will teach you the basics on document types and user controls.
[quote]I do want to learn more about how umbraco works, like how to get membership going and how to pass data from one usercontrol to another. The problem is that there is simple no information how this works and its vary time consuming to searth this forum.[/quote]
Agreed, you won't find tons of info in this forum, but that is because masterpages, provider and user controls are just plain asp.net. If you're an experienced asp.net developer, something I'm convinced off because of the questions asked, then it should be a breeze to implement umbraco sites in a minumum of time.
[quote]The same questions like "how to use membership" and "how to get started" should repeat it self over and over? why not create simple torturials to make it alot easier for both you(veterans) and us (beginners), It should not have to be that hard work sines the system are stated to be vary easy.[/quote]
Hm, you're more than right on this one... It's being worked on... Meanwhile, please keep asking questions...
Again, the feedback is appreciated as we get an idea on how to improve the documentation....
Let's make a deal. If you really want to continue exploring umbraco and wants some help on the membership stuff, I'll be happy to serve a small tutorial on how to set up membership for a site? How about that? Do we have a deal?
I have now looked at the Document typ video and it appears that this video are a good starting point be course Document types (with data types) are the most basic in in umbraco.
I Do see how easy it is to set up a site where you have total control over the content your self.
There is of course some questions that araises.
Say that I am importing data about boardgames from an external webservice, this will demand that my import method needs to know how and where to place the data about the boardgames. The data can be :
a. When is the game published
b. game name
c. publishers
d. authors
e. how many players
f. how long time
g. generall description
h. grade
i. images
j. and so on
I suppose that the game page will have to be setup as a Document type where I put all the properties as common data types?
I then creates the markup for the page where I decide where the diffrent properties will be placed
This will create a page where I can alter the information from within the umbraco admin console but how about :
1. How do I specifies that there will be alot of game pages that uses the same doctype? I do also not want to create all of the 30 000 pages manually, instead the import method should create these data.
2. How do I import data? Say that I write a usercontrol that only got one button "Import" how would the code behind this button look like? How do I get the possibility to add data to the database out side the control panel and how do I know where to put the data(How to map the imported data to the current data structior (DataTypes on DocType) ? Specially when there is alot of diffrent games that uses the same DocType?
3. I Do want it possible for the end user to change the data, I Supose that this is somthing I will have to build special usercontrols for and then use the same procedure to save data as used when importing data?
Yes there Is two big questions right now, the first one is ; how do I get the membership up an running? the second question is how do I make it possible to edit data that exists in the DocTyp from special usercontrols direcly on the front end?
If you could help me with these questions I would be glad to make a test site to see how it all works.
1/ No need to specify something in particular. All board games will be of the same document type. If you don't want to create the data manually (I'm sure with 30000 items), you'll need to write a small app that will do the import for you.
2/ A simple console app will do. All you need to know is what API to use to create new 'content' in umbraco. A rather minimalistic example can be found at http://umbraco.org/documentation/books/api-cheatsheet/creating-a-document. It doesn't matter where to put the data... In your case, I'd create an extra document type 'Board game container' (And create a single document based on that type) and import all 'Board game' content items as child nodes.
3/ Depends. Either make them users (and grant access to the backend) or members (Can login on the frontend). First option is a good solution if you have a limited number of users that will update data (Btw, umbraco can be configured so that users can only modify their own data). If using the latter, you'll have to write up some user controls for managing the data in the backend.
I'll do an extra post on the membership/user control stuff later on today...
That tutorial simes to show how to edit and create data for specefic DocumentTypes and thats nice, but does this mean that all data that I am storing in the database will have to be some kinde of DocumentType that are specified in the umbraco first?
If I want the user to have special properties like age, intrests and what games they owns, how would this work? I Supose that owned games will have to be a DocumentType where the games are presented in one way or the other, but how about the properties like age and interests ? Is it maby the built in ASP.NET membership that I will have to specifies this for?
There may be alot of members on the site and to demand that every change to be made have to be made from the back end simple do not work. If I am on a specific game page on the front end and feels that the description should be change, then I should not have to logon to the backend to fixa this. Also login to the backend gives me a complete new look and this is will just be strange. Think if you have to login to the backend of umbraco everytime you want to make a post or change a post in this forum? Not that grate.
I think that the backend are only for the administrator(me) and "maby" some of the super users. All other members should change the data on the frontend but this should not be any problems with the article you provided.
This makes me think of another thing;
Where do I publish a page that are a specific game? this page are not located under a spcial menu, instead you have to search the site and from a table of results you choose what game you want to display. How does this work in umbraco? And how do I know from the codebehind what game that I am waching and what user is loggedin (that makes the changes)? And finnaly will this mean that 30 000 pages will appear in umbraco backend under the specific folder?
I have now decided to build my CMS system with Entity Framework and ASP.NET MVC, this will help me to get alot of work done in short time and in the same time make it easy to update.
It is possible that I will take another look on a CMS system later on but then I will prioritize deocumentation, 2 week to get the sample running and to learn how the system works are way to much.
Some more information in umbraco
Hey!
I have now got the Umbraco CMS 4 RC3 running thanks to members here on umbraco, Thanks!
Now I have som questions.
1. Membership
I have certain knowlege on how to use masterpages and templates to build a really simple page(one page) with umbraco. Now I need to learn how to handle members off mys site? How do I buld a registration form? How do I make it possible to login to my site? How do I control what data to show for the end user? How do I make it possible for the user to edit the contet lika add/remove/change articles, blogs, personla pages and so on with out let the user in to umbraco controlpanel?
2. Community
I have been building a foundation for a community in ASP.net 2.0 / C# but have now set this project on hold to see if umbraco can replace and thus save alof of work. So how do get a community(forum/mail)) up and running on my umbraco page? And how do I handle the users?
3. Gasp Umbraco
I do not still understand what umbraco really can do? There is no "Getting started with Umbraco" or "how to I build a simple site with members" as far as I can see? There is however documents like "Creating and Using an Action Handler" and "Introduction to Canvas" and this is probably nice but absolutly not for a beginner that do not know the grounds in Umbraco? It may be possible to do anything with umbraco but this also makes it hard to know where and how to begin to learn the system.
4. Work in Umbraco
To build pages in Umbraco you will have to type the HTML and CSS direcly in to the umbraco CMS system. This system do have some good feutures like adding snippets of code to the document(Content tags and so on), but there is no intellisense at all? Is it possible to use Visual Studio´s editor to create the pages or do I simple have to type the HTML/CSS in Visual Studio and then copy it in to the Umbraco CMS?
Pleas help
BestRegards
Hi snowman,
1/ umbraco has support for membership providers. All asp.net member controls can be used to build registration forms, login forms... No strings attached.
But be aware of the difference between members (frontend users) and users (backend users). If you wish to allow members to add/remove/change content, you'll need to build that stuff yourself. If you wish to allow users to add/remove/change content, then they either access the admin backend or set up some content channels so users may still use familiar tools such as word or livewriter.
2/ Looks like a nice project. I'm confident that umbraco can do lots of work for you. And users (I guess you mean members...) can be easily handled using the built-in membership provider support.
3/ Spot on. But, people are working hard to get some good documentation up and running. Check the umbraco.org site frequently for announcements.
4/ you don't need to. Just use your favorite tools such as vs.net to edit those files. If those files are in the corresponding directory, it will be picked up by umbraco (It does for masterpages, css, script files, ...)
Hope this helps.
Regards,
/Dirk
Comment author was deleted
@snowman for getting started I can highly recommend to check out umbraco.tv (http://www.umbraco.org/videos)
[quote=Dirk]Hi snowman,
1/ umbraco has support for membership providers. All asp.net member controls can be used to build registration forms, login forms... No strings attached.
But be aware of the difference between members (frontend users) and users (backend users). If you wish to allow members to add/remove/change content, you'll need to build that stuff yourself. If you wish to allow users to add/remove/change content, then they either access the admin backend or set up some content channels so users may still use familiar tools such as word or livewriter.
[/quote]
So all I have to do is to add the syntax(HTML tags) för the membership controls like CreateUserWizard(
Say that I am about to build a comunity site, this site will need the following standard things.
Article section
- Members may write articles for the site (add, change)
- Super member may handle these articles (change, remove)
Forum
- Members may post threads in the forums and posts in the threads (add, change, remove)
- Super member may administrate the forum, threads and post (change, remove)
- Administraters may build the forum structure
Mail
- Super member may send out news to the members
General
- Count link hits
- Show member status where ever a link the the users exists
- Personal page
and so on, and so on....
The super user is really a simple user with higher rights, this means that this user should not have to use a special administrator page, but instead be able to change the contet right in the front end. It is possibly that the administrators will be willing to enter a special administrator page to edit the structure of the forum.
If I understand you I will have to do the hard part and buld all this my self? Umbraco is only handling what pages goes on to the site and where the usercontrols are to be placeded(HTML/CSS) on these pages?
Or have I misunderstand somthing here?
[quote=Dirk]
3/ Spot on. But, people are working hard to get some good documentation up and running. Check the umbraco.org site frequently for announcements.
[/quote]
To bad, this means that it will take alot longer to understand the system and to see if it is fit for the purpose.
[quote=tim]@snowman for getting started I can highly recommend to check out umbraco.tv (http://www.umbraco.org/videos)[/quote]
Thanks! But I have looked there and I can´t see any "getting started..". It appears that the videos also cost money, this would not be any problem If I did know that this was a system that I will work with. The absolut basics should be free and easy accesssed so I could decide fast if this is a system for me or not.
Note that this is onlye for private use.
After 1 week of work with umbraco It simes like Umbraco only provides two things ; It makes it easy to build your site structure(what pages that goes on to the site) and a simple editor for coding HTML/CSS. It is even possible to use ASP.NET syntax like master pages and so on directly in umbraco control panel. This makes Umbrac a grate solution for one that do not want to learn/code ASP.NET/C#/VB.NET.
I also see umbraco as a grate and fast way to build simple sites that do not demand any special functionality like forums, members and so on.
I however do not see how the umbraco can help a developer that knows its way around ASP.NET/C#/VB.NET when it comes to building more advance site like a community's.
Yes umbraco can handle alot, there is nothing that umbraco can´t do(as it are said) and this might be true but this is be course its demands to use ASP.NET/C#/VB.NET to accomplish more advance stuff and this is not made from within umbraco. I would personally see it the other way around, umbraco are more a add on to ASP.NET to handle the structure of the pages just like the membership makes it possible to handle members.
If there was more packages for umbraco like forum and so on then I would absolutely consider umbraco for a simple community site.
I am looking forward to see how umbraco evolves
Hi snowman,
Indeed, you may use any of the asp.net login controls and you don't have to change anything, unless you need extra business logic to execute... (For example, you'd like to add the member to a member group after registration)
[quote]Article section
- Members may write articles for the site (add, change)
- Super member may handle these articles (change, remove)[/quote]
Either use Doc2Form or your own user control to build the form (If using the latter, you'll need some extra logic fired to get the article published - Doc2Form takes care of that as well.
[quote]Forum
- Members may post threads in the forums and posts in the threads (add, change, remove)
- Super member may administrate the forum, threads and post (change, remove)
- Administraters may build the forum structure[/quote]
Looks quite similar to the articles logic.
[quote]Mail
- Super member may send out news to the members[/quote]
A newsletter module was/is available for v3, haven't tried it on a v4 install...
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Umbraco/SamplesandArticles/Creating_Newsletters
[quote]General
- Count link hits
- Show member status where ever a link the the users exists
- Personal page[/quote]
Count link hits -> Just add a simpe user control to the master page that takes care of counting the hits.
Show member status -> put a asp:LoginStatus control on the masterpage or wherever required.
Personal page -> could be created on member signup, be protected so only that member can access that page... depends on the requirements...
[quote]If I understand you I will have to do the hard part and buld all this my self? Umbraco is only handling what pages goes on to the site and where the usercontrols are to be placeded(HTML/CSS) on these pages?[/quote]
I've yet to see a cms system that does all the plumbing for you.... Anyway, umbraco is best at managing content, as it is a cms system. But is oh so flexible you could do almost anything... You're only limited by your imagination...
That last part might be a bit overexagarated, but I guess you get the point.
[quote]
To bad, this means that it will take alot longer to understand the system and to see if it is fit for the purpose.[/quote]
Our umbraco forum and members are always willing to help you out on any problem or question. So please keep asking questions and we'll get you up to speed with umbraco in no time.
Regards,
/Dirk
Hey!
[quote]Either use Doc2Form or your own user control to build the form (If using the latter, you'll need some extra logic fired to get the article published - Doc2Form takes care of that as well.
[/quote]
I have not looked at the Doc2Form module but I supose that it makes it easy to publish text to the site from within the Admin controlpanel? Or do it also make it possible to add articles direcly from the page(front end)? I do not really think that a simple member want to go in to the controlpanel to add a form, this is something that they want to do directly in the page.
And is it possible to add comments and so on?
I was in believe that is was not possible to change the content from the front end without doing some development my self?
[quote]Looks quite similar to the articles logic. [/quote]
Do you mean that the Doc2Form can be used as a forum(like this forum)?
[quote]I've yet to see a cms system that does all the plumbing for you.... Anyway, umbraco is best at managing content, as it is a cms system. But is oh so flexible you could do almost anything... You're only limited by your imagination...
That last part might be a bit overexagarated, but I guess you get the point.[/quote]
As I see it umbraco do not really contain that much today, If we look at the DotNetNuke you can see that it have the possibility to handle users, mail, blog, articles and forums out of the box, no coding is needed at all besides the markup.
But again how do you mean with flexible? Out of the box there is not really much you can do with umbraco without coding yourself, yes you can publish text on the site in different formation from the administrator controlpanel but what else? And If I have to code the forum and all the other things my self then the question is why I should use umbraco when the hard work are done in Visual Studio anyway? What do umbraco provide that is not easy to setup in a webproject in visual studio? Yes It do got a grate project structure and one could probably learn much from the source foundation.
I maby sound negative, but thats not my intensions, I do absolutly believe that the umbraco are grate but Im not to sure that it is that grate for a developer that already know its way around websites with Visual Studio? I do not simple see the benefits?
Hi snowman,
Feedback is much appreciated!
[quote]I have not looked at the Doc2Form module but I supose that it makes it easy to publish text to the site from within the Admin controlpanel? Or do it also make it possible to add articles direcly from the page(front end)? I do not really think that a simple member want to go in to the controlpanel to add a form, this is something that they want to do directly in the page.[/quote]
Doc2Form allows people to create input forms without the need of developing it. One of its params is taking the id of a document type, and the form will be built based on the doc type's properties (For example, if the article doc type has a title (textstring), header (textstring) and body (rte), then Doc2Form will transform those properties into standard asp.net controls)
It can be used for any documen type, so yes, even articles and article comments could be built that way. Doc2Form is one option, you could of course easily build a custom user control and handle the publishing yourself. Flexibilty right...?
[quote]Do you mean that the Doc2Form can be used as a forum(like this forum)?[/quote]
Not exactly, Doc2Form just allows for easy form building using standard asp.net controls (Btw, I haven't tried it in v4, it has been created long before v4 was ever pronounced).
[quote]As I see it umbraco do not really contain that much today, If we look at the DotNetNuke you can see that it have the possibility to handle users, mail, blog, articles and forums out of the box, no coding is needed at all besides the markup.[/quote]
Hmm, umbraco has been around since 2001 and has been under serious development for the last 2 years... Great to hear about those wonderful modules DNN is offering, great to know it supports those things out-of-the-box, still, you're bound to what users are offering, and can't change things unless you do the coding yourself... I'm not going to discuss DNN vs umbraco, but have seen many posts in this forum of people who've turned from DNN to umbraco and never looked back. Have to hear about the first one that did the opposite... (well, probably, we won't hear 'm complaining here...)
No, seriously, I don't want to make DNN look stupid, it just doesn't fit my needs (as a developer...) and it's too bloated.
[quote]I maby sound negative, but thats not my intensions, I do absolutly believe that the umbraco are grate but Im not to sure that it is that grate for a developer that already know its way around websites with Visual Studio? I do not simple see the benefits?[/quote]
No problem at all, the feedback is much appreciated... I've seen people building complete webshops using umbraco without even touching vs.net! And we just can't ignore the vast number of websites (big and small) running umbraco...
I'm hoping you'll be exploring umbraco even more to see if it might be the right choice for you... Let us know what you decide
Regards,
/Dirk
I have now made my own usercontrol and manage to import it to my umbraco page and it was as easy as adding it to any other site.
I do however still not see why I should use umbraco instead of building the site my self? Yes Umbraco is a CMS system that should make it easy to change the content. But say that I build a site about boardgames where I will import information about the boardgames from a webservice, where do I store the data? and will I have to build the tool my self that edit the information(maby I want to change the text for the boardgame monopoly).
The questions are many but the information are thin.
I do want to learn more about how umbraco works, like how to get membership going and how to pass data from one usercontrol to another. The problem is that there is simple no information how this works and its vary time consuming to searth this forum.
If the information was easy accessed then the time it takes to learn the umbraco system should reduce multitudely.
The same questions like "how to use membership" and "how to get started" should repeat it self over and over? why not create simple torturials to make it alot easier for both you(veterans) and us (beginners), It should not have to be that hard work sines the system are stated to be vary easy.
Hi,
[quote]I have now made my own usercontrol and manage to import it to my umbraco page and it was as easy as adding it to any other site.[/quote]
Great! I told you it wasn't that difficult...
[quote]I do however still not see why I should use umbraco instead of building the site my self? Yes Umbraco is a CMS system that should make it easy to change the content. But say that I build a site about boardgames where I will import information about the boardgames from a webservice, where do I store the data? and will I have to build the tool my self that edit the information(maby I want to change the text for the boardgame monopoly).[/quote]
Ok, let me ask some more questions then... How will you store the data? As rows in a database table, right? And how will you administer that data? From an admin site, right? And why do you need to import data from a webservice? Is that from an external source?
And now... let me explain how umbraco will handle this...
As you need to define how the data looks like (the actual rows in your db, remember), you'll need document types. Probably the most important building block! All data has a structure and it needs to be defined! Document types is what you need. Add as many 'properties' as required. Can be text (single/multiline), integers, images, you name it, most of the basics are supported. Have data defined. Cool, start creating data based on that document types. All data goes into the content section of umbraco. Have all data available. Cool, just one step and you've got the info on the web. Declare some templates (will define the look and feel of content) and you're set. Ok, it may look as I'm simplifying things too much, but it's all there is. No caveats whatsoever.
Oh, I read your mind, quite easy to set up such things in classic asp.net? Sure that is, but let me take a very common use case of some people that are allowed to change the data while others may not. Hmm, I'm sure you can do this in classic asp.net, it will take me about 2 minutes to implement that feature! How about the classis asp.net approach?
Or the DNN approach it you wish?
Btw, there's free content available on http://umbraco.tv/ as well, that will teach you the basics on document types and user controls.
[quote]I do want to learn more about how umbraco works, like how to get membership going and how to pass data from one usercontrol to another. The problem is that there is simple no information how this works and its vary time consuming to searth this forum.[/quote]
Agreed, you won't find tons of info in this forum, but that is because masterpages, provider and user controls are just plain asp.net. If you're an experienced asp.net developer, something I'm convinced off because of the questions asked, then it should be a breeze to implement umbraco sites in a minumum of time.
[quote]The same questions like "how to use membership" and "how to get started" should repeat it self over and over? why not create simple torturials to make it alot easier for both you(veterans) and us (beginners), It should not have to be that hard work sines the system are stated to be vary easy.[/quote]
Hm, you're more than right on this one... It's being worked on... Meanwhile, please keep asking questions...
Again, the feedback is appreciated as we get an idea on how to improve the documentation....
Let's make a deal. If you really want to continue exploring umbraco and wants some help on the membership stuff, I'll be happy to serve a small tutorial on how to set up membership for a site? How about that? Do we have a deal?
Regards,
/Dirk
Hey Dirk,
I have now looked at the Document typ video and it appears that this video are a good starting point be course Document types (with data types) are the most basic in in umbraco.
I Do see how easy it is to set up a site where you have total control over the content your self.
There is of course some questions that araises.
Say that I am importing data about boardgames from an external webservice, this will demand that my import method needs to know how and where to place the data about the boardgames. The data can be :
a. When is the game published
b. game name
c. publishers
d. authors
e. how many players
f. how long time
g. generall description
h. grade
i. images
j. and so on
I suppose that the game page will have to be setup as a Document type where I put all the properties as common data types?
I then creates the markup for the page where I decide where the diffrent properties will be placed
This will create a page where I can alter the information from within the umbraco admin console but how about :
1. How do I specifies that there will be alot of game pages that uses the same doctype? I do also not want to create all of the 30 000 pages manually, instead the import method should create these data.
2. How do I import data? Say that I write a usercontrol that only got one button "Import" how would the code behind this button look like? How do I get the possibility to add data to the database out side the control panel and how do I know where to put the data(How to map the imported data to the current data structior (DataTypes on DocType) ? Specially when there is alot of diffrent games that uses the same DocType?
3. I Do want it possible for the end user to change the data, I Supose that this is somthing I will have to build special usercontrols for and then use the same procedure to save data as used when importing data?
Yes there Is two big questions right now, the first one is ; how do I get the membership up an running? the second question is how do I make it possible to edit data that exists in the DocTyp from special usercontrols direcly on the front end?
If you could help me with these questions I would be glad to make a test site to see how it all works.
BestRegards
I have built this site in ASP.NET / C# : bradspel.net
My goal is now to build a new and stable foundation that I can rebuild this site on and also have as a foundation for another project of mine.
This might give you and idea where I want to go.
Hi snowman,
Here's some thoughts on the questions:
1/ No need to specify something in particular. All board games will be of the same document type. If you don't want to create the data manually (I'm sure with 30000 items), you'll need to write a small app that will do the import for you.
2/ A simple console app will do. All you need to know is what API to use to create new 'content' in umbraco. A rather minimalistic example can be found at http://umbraco.org/documentation/books/api-cheatsheet/creating-a-document. It doesn't matter where to put the data... In your case, I'd create an extra document type 'Board game container' (And create a single document based on that type) and import all 'Board game' content items as child nodes.
3/ Depends. Either make them users (and grant access to the backend) or members (Can login on the frontend). First option is a good solution if you have a limited number of users that will update data (Btw, umbraco can be configured so that users can only modify their own data). If using the latter, you'll have to write up some user controls for managing the data in the backend.
I'll do an extra post on the membership/user control stuff later on today...
Regards,
/Dirk
Thanks!
That tutorial simes to show how to edit and create data for specefic DocumentTypes and thats nice, but does this mean that all data that I am storing in the database will have to be some kinde of DocumentType that are specified in the umbraco first?
If I want the user to have special properties like age, intrests and what games they owns, how would this work? I Supose that owned games will have to be a DocumentType where the games are presented in one way or the other, but how about the properties like age and interests ? Is it maby the built in ASP.NET membership that I will have to specifies this for?
There may be alot of members on the site and to demand that every change to be made have to be made from the back end simple do not work. If I am on a specific game page on the front end and feels that the description should be change, then I should not have to logon to the backend to fixa this. Also login to the backend gives me a complete new look and this is will just be strange. Think if you have to login to the backend of umbraco everytime you want to make a post or change a post in this forum? Not that grate.
I think that the backend are only for the administrator(me) and "maby" some of the super users. All other members should change the data on the frontend but this should not be any problems with the article you provided.
This makes me think of another thing;
Where do I publish a page that are a specific game? this page are not located under a spcial menu, instead you have to search the site and from a table of results you choose what game you want to display. How does this work in umbraco? And how do I know from the codebehind what game that I am waching and what user is loggedin (that makes the changes)? And finnaly will this mean that 30 000 pages will appear in umbraco backend under the specific folder?
BestRegards
Hey!
I have now decided to build my CMS system with Entity Framework and ASP.NET MVC, this will help me to get alot of work done in short time and in the same time make it easy to update.
It is possible that I will take another look on a CMS system later on but then I will prioritize deocumentation, 2 week to get the sample running and to learn how the system works are way to much.
BestRegards
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