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  • Debbie Lawrenson 55 posts 75 karma points
    May 13, 2013 @ 16:38
    Debbie Lawrenson
    0

    How hard is Umbraco to use?

    Hello! I am a web designer/developer in the UK and my coding skills are HTML/CSS Javascript and up to now I have been working a lot in Drupal so have some PHP knowledge. I have just joined a design agency and need to choose a CMS going forward to build all of our client sites in. My question really is whether someone like me who has some technical skills but not at all in ASP.net should kick off with Umbraco as the CMS of choice and whether this means I'll have to learn ASP.net?

    Also I would like to use Zurb's Foundation as a front end framework and wonder how this sort of thing can combine with Umbraco. Or indeed any responsive framework?

    Many thanks,

    Deb

  • Damon Bauer 48 posts 95 karma points
    May 13, 2013 @ 17:51
    Damon Bauer
    2

    You'll have to learn some .NET things, as the template & macro system in Umbraco depend on it. They aren't too complex and there are starter macros to get you going if needed. If you don't know what a macro is, you'll learn quickly. Essentially, they are chunks of code dropped into a template or onto a page that allow you to run code to render something. The most common example is navigation - a foreach block runs through and builds a list of links for the pages and spits it onto the page. 

    About frameworks - you shouldn't have much of a problem integrating these sorts of systems. Your workflow would be something like:

    • Replace static html with a macro inside the page template
    • On page load, the macro renders the code from the content area
    • Style it like normal with css/js
    It's easier to explain certain things once you've tried to set them up. There are many features that I've come across to really speed up and improve the user experience for the CMS user - you just have to get your hands dirty a little bit.
  • Fuji Kusaka 2203 posts 4220 karma points
    May 13, 2013 @ 19:05
    Fuji Kusaka
    1

    Hi Debbie,

    You must ask yourself how COOL and Friendly Umbraco is!!

    As Damon mentioned in his previous response, umbraco is really easy to use. You can choose either make use of XSLT or Razor c#  to make this the way you want to.

    Have a look at all the resources on umbraco tv .

  • Jan Skovgaard 11257 posts 23497 karma points MVP 7x admin c-trib
    May 13, 2013 @ 20:59
    Jan Skovgaard
    1

    Hi Debbie and welcome to our :)

    I'd just like to add that you should probably also consider why do you want to use and learn Umbraco over Drupal? What is your main reason for wanting to switch? I think it's important to keep in mind the purpose of what you're going to build and make sure Umbraco is the right fit. In some cases Wordpress might be the better choise - it depens! :)

    Umbraco makes it possible for you to control how you structure data and let's you decide on what famework you want to use. When you install Umbraco without a starter kit you get an empty shell, which you can build upon.

    That means you need to define your own data structure, content structure etc. - Nothing is predefined, which makes it entirely up to you to make Umbraco a good experience for yourself and the editors who need to manage content on their website using Umbraco.

    /Jan

  • Debbie Lawrenson 55 posts 75 karma points
    May 14, 2013 @ 13:08
    Debbie Lawrenson
    0

    Hi all and thanks so miuch for your reponses they are very helpful. So am I right in thinking that Umbraco isn't a theme/template system like Drupal? The main reason I'd like to shift is that I find Drupal both restrictive and complex in the same breath. I really want to go down the responsive route and I really like the look of Foundation as a framework. My aim is to try and streamline things and I'm just curious to know if Umbraco will tick all the boxes or whether I'm still going to need to cover a few different CMSs. I haven't done anything in Wordpress for a long while so I'm on an uphill climb with that too. So for example I have a simple website to do for a client who wants 2 different forums, one being public and one members only. I know how I would do this in Drupal but no idea how good Umbraco would be in doing this. Are there plugins for forums? I dont want to have to build a forum from scratch and actually I don't have the skills to do that anyway. Any advice would be most welcome.

    Thanks,

    Deb

  • Debbie Lawrenson 55 posts 75 karma points
    May 17, 2013 @ 11:20
    Debbie Lawrenson
    0

    Hi all,

    So I have been watching the videos and have learnt a great deal. I think I understand how to create doc types, templates etc so could from scratch (all be it with a lot of refering to the videos) create a basic website with dynamic news, nav etc. My worry comes where I have to create something more than a basic site. So say I have to build a forum or a shopping cart, or a booking system, given that I am not a .net developer I would have difficulty doing this unless there was a set of plugins to help create these sort of things. Is there a good library of plugin for this sort of stuff or would I be forced to hire a contractor to develop these things for me?

    Many thanks,

    Deb

  • John C Scott 457 posts 1156 karma points
    May 17, 2013 @ 11:32
    John C Scott
    0

    there are a huge number of free and paid for "packages" in the projects section that do many of these things without ever needing to touch a developer and the ratings and compatibility assist in choosing the best ones, plus also generally where there is an attached forum you can see quite quickly before you start what sort of things users had difficulties with and how well the developer responded to them

    almost all the developers offer free support for their package (the wonderful thing is they mostly consider this to be you helping them!)

    and if you do really need something that hasn't been done before and so need a contractor there are so so so many available with a generally very high standard

    the good thing is it's so easy to develop extensions for umbraco that generally this work is a lot more straightforward than in other systems

  • David Brendel 774 posts 2841 karma points c-trib
    May 17, 2013 @ 11:33
    David Brendel
    0

    Hi Debbie,

    there are hundrets of plugins for umbraco. You can find them here on this site under projects.

    Of course there are also plugins which helps you get a shop up and running.

    I don't know how these kind of plugins look like in Drupal but in umbraco these plugins don't create the actuall basket pages or product details pages. These is work you have to do.

  • Anthony Candaele 1197 posts 2049 karma points
    May 17, 2013 @ 11:34
    Anthony Candaele
    0

    Hi Debbie,

    There are some good e-commerce packages out there: uCommerce, uWebshop, Teacommerce, ...

    I believe there is also a good forum package: nForum

    Hope this helps,
    Anthony

  • Debbie Lawrenson 55 posts 75 karma points
    May 17, 2013 @ 12:08
    Debbie Lawrenson
    1

    Thanks so much to you all, that decides it then! I'm off to the 2 day training in London in 2 weeks time, wish me luck :) I'm excited.

    Have a great weekend all.

    Deb

  • Charles Afford 1163 posts 1709 karma points
    May 18, 2013 @ 21:57
    Charles Afford
    0

    That training should help you out a lot, although i have not been on the training, having been on SiteCore training I would get some hands on exp first.  If you ever

    need help or advice someone will always answer here :).  I think packages have there place, but they do allow you to implement functionality with out any idea of what is going on.  I think that they should be used when you have an understanding of how they sit architecturally within your system and you know how to develop them further :).  Just my view.

     

  • Debbie Lawrenson 55 posts 75 karma points
    May 21, 2013 @ 17:24
    Debbie Lawrenson
    0

    Me again.

    Have been looking at installation of Umbraco on my local machine. I have to create a virtual server to do this as I'm on a Mac but that's fine. Which is the best way to set this up bearing in mind that I will have a number of websites in Umbraco. I also would like to use my own editor rather than WebMatrix. I'm leaning towards doing a manual installation through IIS and setting up virtual directories for each of my sites. Does this sound right? Can I use a basic editor like Macrabbit's espresso or do I have to use something like Webmatrix or Netbeans because I'm working on an app rather than a static site? Once the site is ready and complete how do I deploy this onto a live server? My hosts provide a one click install for Umbraco but so I need to do this if I already have the site running on my local machine?

    Apologies for my ignorance. I spent a few months in a software house but have never really had to set anything like this up from scratch before.\

    Thanks,

    Deb

  • Charles Afford 1163 posts 1709 karma points
    May 21, 2013 @ 21:47
    Charles Afford
    0

    I would definity go with IIS with out a question.  When you say an app rather than static code do you refer to complied DLL's rather than just static HTML and some javascript?.  Any IDE would do in this case.  I would highly recommed the light version of Visual Studio 2010.  I dont have much exp with net beans.  

    I have a blog post: http://charlesafford.com/setup-a-new-umbraco-instance-with-iis.aspx this should tell you how to setup a new umbraco site with iis.  My blog is being slow at the moment but i am trying to resolve it.  (There are loads of them out there of course)  

    What host are with you with (I have had a lot of problems with 123 reg).  Dont do the 1 click install of umbraco with your hosting.  You wont get the correct version and it will just call you alot of trouble.

    All you will need to do is complie your code in to your www root bin. (Your umbraco instance)

    Move the all of the files in the folder - the install directory up to your webspace

    Move your database up to your webspace

    Update your webconfig with the new connection strings for your new database on your webspace (Your host will have this)

    Then you should be good to go (You will need to re-publish the site when you have put it live)

    Hope this helps.  Charlie.

     

  • Debbie Lawrenson 55 posts 75 karma points
    May 24, 2013 @ 13:01
    Debbie Lawrenson
    0

    Hi Charlie,

    Thanks so much this does really help and I'll read your blog post. Usually I work on HTML, CSS and javascript within a coder such as Macrabbit and then simply upload the files to the webserver but obvisouly using Umbraco is slightly more complicated. That's what I mean about static versus app. What benefits will using VS light give me over a simple coder? Is it free? Yes I guess when I say I mean after the files have been compiled. I should know this but in my last place of work we worked soley on Drupal but I guess the general approach was the same. So lets say I had a site that I wanted to build as a reponsive site using Bootstrap for example, how would the workflow be? I know how I'd so it outside of Umbraco but not sure how to do it in Umbraco. I'm sure that I just need to get started on something otherwise it's just the fear of the unknown!!!

    Thanks for your help though :)

    Deb

  • Charles Afford 1163 posts 1709 karma points
    May 24, 2013 @ 22:40
    Charles Afford
    0

    If its just html and css and javascript then you should be able to setup and use Umbraco fairly simply.  Yes VS light is free its just and very good industry standard IDE, but if your doing css.javascript (client side code) then notepad would do :).

    I would highly recommend using MVC and razor view (you just need to change a value in the webconfig)  

    What you would do, is download the umbraco zip, create a new iis site, setup some templates in umbraco, add code to the templates, create document types, create properties, create a new node, add the template and the doc type to the node, publish the node,  Its very simple when you get the hang of it.

    The best thing to do imo would be to create a new IIS site and umbraco, when you install you will be able to choose one of the starter kits and that should show you around how things are working :).

    If you need any help.  Give us a shout. :)

  • Debbie Lawrenson 55 posts 75 karma points
    May 29, 2013 @ 12:17
    Debbie Lawrenson
    0

    Hi Charlie,

    Thanks again :)

    "I would highly recommend using MVC and razor view (you just need to change a value in the webconfig)" - do you mean within VS light?

    Ok yes that does sound straight forward. I think once I get started it'll all come clear. Roll on next week!

    Deb

  • Charles Afford 1163 posts 1709 karma points
    May 29, 2013 @ 15:01
    Charles Afford
    0

    Sorry its the umbracoSettings config.  So you have to structures.

    One under vslight > class liabary project (this gets complied to the bin of the one below)

    One in you www root.  (CSS, javscript bin, files ect live here)

    In your www root you will have a config folder and inside a umbracoSettings.config file.  You need to change the stuff in here:

      <templates>

        <useAspNetMasterPages>false</useAspNetMasterPages>

        <defaultRenderingEngine>Mvc</defaultRenderingEngine>

      </templates>

    Now you can use MVC.  :).  Any help give us a shout :).

  • Debbie Lawrenson 55 posts 75 karma points
    Jun 01, 2013 @ 00:59
    Debbie Lawrenson
    0

    Evening all. Have done most of the installation but when I try to view my umbrcao site it says this:

     

    This configuration section cannot be used at this path. This happens when the section is locked at a parent level. Locking is either by default (overrideModeDefault="Deny"), or set explicitly by a location tag with overrideMode="Deny" or the legacy allowOverride="false". 

    Any idea how to fix this?

    Thanks,

    Deb

  • Charles Afford 1163 posts 1709 karma points
    Jun 01, 2013 @ 01:06
    Charles Afford
    0

    Hi, i am fairly confident that you need to give IUSERS full permission on your www root folder

    c:/inetpub/yourfolder

    Charlie :)

  • Debbie Lawrenson 55 posts 75 karma points
    Jun 01, 2013 @ 08:50
    Debbie Lawrenson
    0

    Hi Charlie, oh okay so I just created a folder called development in my c drive and put the umbraco files in there. Do they need to be in c:/inetpub/yourfolder?

    Thanks, Deb :)

  • Charles Afford 1163 posts 1709 karma points
    Jun 01, 2013 @ 15:52
    Charles Afford
    0

    Well if you are using iis then it will need to be within the inetpub/wwwroot/ :)

    Do you have iis setup and everything?  Sorry for my late reply

  • Debbie Lawrenson 55 posts 75 karma points
    Jun 01, 2013 @ 15:58
    Debbie Lawrenson
    0

    I have iis 8 installed on windows 8. Have added a site and pointed to folder in development. Have also added path to hosts file. I can delete the site I added and move it into wwwroot/development and then add the site into iis again I guess can't I?

    No worries at all Charlie, very grateful for your help :)

  • Charles Afford 1163 posts 1709 karma points
    Jun 01, 2013 @ 21:05
    Charles Afford
    0

    All you would need to do is move the folder in to the dir i said earlier.  No problems.  If you need some more help let me know :)

  • Debbie Lawrenson 55 posts 75 karma points
    Jun 01, 2013 @ 21:36
    Debbie Lawrenson
    0

    Hi Charlie,

    I managed to get to the install screen and I didn't move the folder. I left it in c:\Development\UmbracoTraining. Basically I followed this tutorial http://cultiv.nl/blog/2011/7/18/how-to-install-umbraco-manually/ which seemed to work pretty well. Only thing is, the error I'm getting now is this when the install is 90% through:

    [SqlException (0x80131904): Login failed for user 'umbraco'.]

       System.Data.ProviderBase.DbConnectionPool.TryGetConnection(DbConnection owningObject, UInt32 waitForMultipleObjectsTimeout, Boolean allowCreate, Boolean onlyOneCheckConnection, DbConnectionOptions userOptions, DbConnectionInternal& connection) +671

       System.Data.ProviderBase.DbConnectionPool.TryGetConnection(DbConnection owningObject, TaskCompletionSource`1 retry, DbConnectionOptions userOptions, DbConnectionInternal& connection) +116

       System.Data.ProviderBase.DbConnectionFactory.TryGetConnection(DbConnection owningConnection, TaskCompletionSource`1 retry, DbConnectionOptions userOptions, DbConnectionInternal& connection) +1012

       System.Data.ProviderBase.DbConnectionClosed.TryOpenConnection(DbConnection outerConnection, DbConnectionFactory connectionFactory, TaskCompletionSource`1 retry, DbConnectionOptions userOptions) +6711619

       System.Data.SqlClient.SqlConnection.TryOpen(TaskCompletionSource`1 retry) +152

       System.Data.SqlClient.SqlConnection.Open() +229

       Umbraco.Core.Persistence.FaultHandling.<>c__DisplayClass1.<ExecuteAction>b__0() +15

       Umbraco.Core.Persistence.FaultHandling.RetryPolicy.ExecuteAction(Func`1 func) +545

       Umbraco.Core.Persistence.Database.OpenSharedConnection() +228

       Umbraco.Core.Persistence.<Query>d__7`1.MoveNext() +208

       System.Collections.Generic.List`1..ctor(IEnumerable`1 collection) +536

       System.Linq.Enumerable.ToList(IEnumerable`1 source) +80

       Umbraco.Core.Persistence.SqlSyntax.SqlServerSyntaxProvider.GetTablesInSchema(Database db) +124

       Umbraco.Core.Persistence.Migrations.Initial.DatabaseSchemaCreation.ValidateSchema() +506

       Umbraco.Core.DatabaseContext.ValidateDatabaseSchema() +340

       Umbraco.Web.UI.Install.Steps.Welcome.Page_Load(Object sender, EventArgs e) +42

       System.Web.UI.Control.LoadRecursive() +116

       System.Web.UI.Control.LoadRecursive() +206

       System.Web.UI.Control.LoadRecursive() +206

       System.Web.UI.Control.LoadRecursive() +206

     

       System.Web.UI.Page.ProcessRequestMain(Boolean includeStagesBeforeAsyncPoint, Boolean includeStagesAfterAsyncPoint) +2910

     

    I have checked and the username and the password is correct in the config file. Have also checked and TCP\IP connection is enabled in SQL 2012.

    Not sure what is up :(

    Before, files were block which was the permission issue - fixed all that now.

    Nearly there! Crikey this is painful :(

    Deb

  • Charles Afford 1163 posts 1709 karma points
    Jun 01, 2013 @ 21:54
    Charles Afford
    0

    Yea i said that would be a permission issue.  Once you have done it once its easy the next time.  Could you tell me you are putting in the database bit

    Connection

    Username 

    Password

    In SQL Server the user you are using if you login as them with sql server authentication, go to your blank umbraco database you are using, and try to create a table.  Will it allow you too?  Remove the table after trying 

    Charlie :).

  • Charles Afford 1163 posts 1709 karma points
    Jun 01, 2013 @ 21:55
    Charles Afford
    0

    Its also really need to move that folder into the inetpub root :)

  • Debbie Lawrenson 55 posts 75 karma points
    Jun 01, 2013 @ 22:06
    Debbie Lawrenson
    0

    Hi Charlie,

    Okay I will move it. Do I also need to change the path in IIS I guess?

    If I try to login with the user and password I'm using for the DB with SQL server authentication I am refused access. No idea what that means!

    Deb

  • Charles Afford 1163 posts 1709 karma points
    Jun 01, 2013 @ 22:48
    Charles Afford
    0

    ok, so did you setup a user in SQL Server?

    Login to SQL using windows auth, right click on the the very top node (something like ./sqlexpress)

    click properties

    click secuirty

    where it says authentication 

    select sql authentication

    Charlie.

     

  • Debbie Lawrenson 55 posts 75 karma points
    Jun 01, 2013 @ 23:02
    Debbie Lawrenson
    0

    Hi Charlie,

    It's sorted!! You wouldn't believe it but yes indeed it was all down to SQL properties only allowing login via windows auth and not windows and sql auth!

    Has installed now thank goodness, I had to get it all setup for my training on Monday. Massive learning curve for me setting this all up from scratch given that I'm a web designer not a database/systems person...eek! Still I think I've learnt quite a lot today and thanks so much for all of your help.

    Right, time for a glass of wine!!!!!

    Thanks again for your help Charlie.

    Deb

  • Charles Afford 1163 posts 1709 karma points
    Jun 01, 2013 @ 23:10
    Charles Afford
    0

    We have all been through that pain!.  Is that Umbraco training?  good luck :).  Let me know how it goes, i would be really intrested what they teach you.  Its much easier from here :).  I would definitly recommened learning some back end development :).

    It might be worth logging in quick and having a look around the cms before tomorrow.

    Good luck :).

    Charlie :)

  • Debbie Lawrenson 55 posts 75 karma points
    Jun 07, 2013 @ 18:01
    Debbie Lawrenson
    0

    Hi,

    So I am now a certified Umbraco developer apparently! Wahoo!! Vourse was really good and I learnt a lot. We built a site over the 2 days aswell which was a great learning tool.

    So I have a scenario:

    I am being given an umbraco site and database from another supplier (client moving to us) the site is being extended so not losing the existing files, but the domain transfer wont happen for a few weeks yet.

    If I set the site up locally on my machine through IIS and connect up to the database (just do this in web.config I presume?) to work on, is that the best way to do it? Obviously the client is going to want to see the live site on a dev server whilst I'm working on it. Is it literally the case that I intermittently upload the files and the database onto the dev server (we dont host ourselves) for them to see progress or is there a better way to work?

    Thanks for all the advice by the way, hopefully in the near future I will be able to contribute!!


    Deb

  • Charles Afford 1163 posts 1709 karma points
    Jun 08, 2013 @ 18:07
    Charles Afford
    0

    Well done! and i am glad that you learnt lots about this great product  :)

    I would get the site working on your local machine, then upload the database to the dev server and then just upload new code.  You dont really want to be re-rolling the database (It will cause issues)

    Any ideas on how your going to impliment your new website? :).  Charlie.

    You will be helping in no time.  The best way to learn is to makes mistakes :)

  • Debbie Lawrenson 55 posts 75 karma points
    Jun 10, 2013 @ 10:44
    Debbie Lawrenson
    0

    Hi Charlie,

    So do you mean upload the site and the DB to the server and then link my local code files to the DB on the server? I guess the connection string would be the same on both would it? Our hosting server is not here but with an external company.

    When you say any ideas on how to implement, what do you mean? The site is already designed and built but we have to make changes to it, new home page, new doc types etc All new to me! I'll be glad when this job is over, it's complex and the deadline is tight :(

    Thanks,

    Charlie 

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